file Wooden stake/ destroy equipment timing question

31 Jan 2016 03:23 #75289 by Zombieking
In combat, one vampire(with +1 strength) declares their strike with a wooden stake, whilst the other vampire uses ‘Fractured Armament’ strike: destroy equipment.
-

Stake [melee weapon] Strike: strength damage. If more than 1 damage is inflicted on an opposing vampire by this weapon in a given combat, that vampire is sent to torpor. In that case, this card is transferred to that vampire, and he or she doesn't untap as normal during the untap phase as long as he or she remains in torpor.

Destroy Equipment. (This effect will burn an equipment card on the opposing minion.)

-
What would be the correct chain of events…

The destroy equipment is not first strike, so its damage resolves, right? Which would then trigger the torpor and transfer of the stake. So does destroy equipment fizzle because the stake is no longer on the opposing minion, or does that resolve before the torpor/transfer effect? Or would the stake destroyed before it even inflicts damage?

Thanks in advance! :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2016 15:38 - 01 Feb 2016 16:12 #75302 by Zombieking
Still trying to find an answer for this one..

The closest comparison to 'destroy equipment' is 'steal equipment', which reads:
6.4.5. Steal Equipment. This effect is like destroy equipment, except that instead of being burned, the equipment card is moved to the striking minion. The stolen equipment may not be used by bearer during the current round of combat. The equipment is retained by the stealing minion after combat ends


So, if steal and destroy work the same, then (to answer my original question) the stake is destroyed before the bearer can strike with it. Even though it's not first strike, it does actually resolves first.

Although, the difference in this text is what's confusing me regarding the timing and effect:

6.4.5. Destroy Equipment. This effect will burn an equipment card of the opposing minion. If there is more than one piece of equipment on the opposing minion, the striking minion chooses which one is burned. The equipment can still be used up to the point at which the destroy equipment strike resolves. The effect may specify destroy weapon instead of equipment, in which case a weapon must be chosen.

Halp!
Last edit: 01 Feb 2016 16:12 by Zombieking.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2016 16:48 #75303 by drstrange26
The tricky part of this whole thing is this.
If more than 1 damage is inflicted on an opposing vampire by this weapon in a given combat, that vampire is sent to torpor.

Both strikes happen at the same time.
However the Strike: Destroy Equipment does not go to the damage phase.
The equipment is destroyed.

Enter damage resolution.
Damage is still done but the weapon is no longer in play.
The text on the equipment is not active.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zombieking

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2016 20:05 #75305 by chrisn101
This came up many years ago in our local group. I'm pretty sure Shattering Blow is more commonly seen these days because of it.

Both strikes happen at the same time.


Quite. If I recall correctly, we resolved it as if 2 or more damage was inflicted, the opposing vampire would go to torpor, but the stake would be destroyed, so the second part would be ignored. Essentially:

Wooden Stake [melee weapon]
Strike: strength damage. If more than 1 damage is inflicted on an opposing vampire by this weapon in a given combat, that vampire is sent to torpor. In that case, this card is transferred to that vampire, and he or she doesn't untap as normal during the untap phase as long as he or she remains in torpor.

This was on the basis that the stake had made contact with the opposing minion, but shattered on impact (in order to be consistent with similar cards, such as Armour of Vitality ).

Had a Google around, but couldn't find any official ruling. Good question! :-)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zombieking

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2016 20:11 #75306 by Zombieking

The tricky part of this whole thing is this.
If more than 1 damage is inflicted on an opposing vampire by this weapon in a given combat, that vampire is sent to torpor.

Both strikes happen at the same time.
However the Strike: Destroy Equipment does not go to the damage phase.
The equipment is destroyed.

Enter damage resolution.
Damage is still done but the weapon is no longer in play.
The text on the equipment is not active.


ok, that's cool, thanks!
so can I just break this down to see if I understand it properly...

the stake damage is dealt; at the same time, the stake burns.
therefore the stake does not then trigger the torpor effect for damage it has just caused.
and the stake is obviously no longer available to transfer to opposing vamp.

cheers :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2016 20:21 #75307 by chrisn101
Rulebook was staring me in the face....

"6.4.3. Strike"
[...]
"The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously"
[...]
"When a minion or retainer takes damage (either from a strike or from other means), he must burn blood or lose life, as appropriate (see Damage Resolution, sec. 6.4.6). Note that the effects of a strike are applied and then damage is resolved. This timing is important for some special strikes, such as steal blood (see Strike Effects, sec. 6.4.5)."
[...]

6.4.5. Strike Effects
[...]
"Destroy Equipment. This effect will burn an equipment card of the opposing minion. If there is more than one piece of equipment on the opposing minion, the striking minion chooses which one is burned. The equipment can still be used up to the point at which the destroy equipment strike resolves. The effect may specify destroy weapon instead of equipment, in which case a weapon must be chosen."

( Section 6 ).
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zombieking

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.105 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum