Strikes against Lucian, the Perfect
27 Oct 2016 16:13 #78792
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Strikes against Lucian, the Perfect
Correct. I forgot this ruling, and I find it unnecessarily complicated as you must guess which strikes are affected, but it's the current ruling.
So you are implying that "STRIKES AGAINST" are only card effects that threaten to damage?
I kinda looks like LSJ is "ruling" that "strikes against" are only strike effects that affect an opponent directly.
So:
Catatonic Fear @ inferior would not cost extra blood (does not affect Lucian).
Catatonic Fear @ superior would cost an extra blood.(does affect Lucian).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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28 Oct 2016 06:04 - 28 Oct 2016 06:09 #78797
by Ankha
If the opponent play Pounce, a dodge will inflict him damage during the press step. Does the dodge cost 1 more?
Though cornercase, these situations may lead to a disagreement during a game.
Pounce
Type: Combat
Requires: Flight
Strike: hand strike at +2 damage, and the opposing minion cannot strike for the remainder of the round (this doesn't affect the current strike resolution). If this strike is dodged, this striking minion takes 1 damage during strike resolution and the opposing minion gets an optional press.
Anyway, you're right: it's as complicated as determining whether a dodge would protect you or not.
Replied by Ankha on topic Strikes against Lucian, the Perfect
What if I destroy an Eye of Hazimel with Canine Horde? Does the Gemini Mirror protect from the damage dealt to the opposing minion by the destruction of the Eye?
Correct. I forgot this ruling, and I find it unnecessarily complicated as you must guess which strikes are affected, but it's the current ruling.
I'm not sure why guessing is necessary. The thrust of the rulings seems pretty simple - does the strike (or a part of the strike) target the opponent? If so, then it's made "against" that opponent. This is excluding cards on the opponent, like retainers or equipment.
In essence, if I played a dodge, is the thing that the strike is doing something my minion would dodge?
If the opponent play Pounce, a dodge will inflict him damage during the press step. Does the dodge cost 1 more?
Though cornercase, these situations may lead to a disagreement during a game.
Pounce
Type: Combat
Requires: Flight
Strike: hand strike at +2 damage, and the opposing minion cannot strike for the remainder of the round (this doesn't affect the current strike resolution). If this strike is dodged, this striking minion takes 1 damage during strike resolution and the opposing minion gets an optional press.
Anyway, you're right: it's as complicated as determining whether a dodge would protect you or not.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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28 Oct 2016 23:37 #78801
by jamesatzephyr
The Canine Horde targeted the equipment, not the guy it's on. That that destruction has a side effect doesn't mean the strike was made against the opponent.
Along similar lines, Secure Haven means that "This minion cannot be the target of other Methuselahs' actions." But it doesn't protect cards on the minion:
www.vekn.net/card-rulings/card-rulings-p-to-z
So, for example, Arcanum Investigator is free to use its
action to burn the Eye of Hazimel. That the Eye of Hazimel burning would deal damage to the bearer doesn't suddenly transmogrify this into a action targeting the bearer him or herself.
Strikes targeting equipment (only) aren't strikes "against" the opponent, per the already cited [LSJ 20031118].
That seems slightly arguable, but the damage comes from a side-effect on Pounce's text, not an effect of my strike, so it would seem very much more not the case.
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Strikes against Lucian, the Perfect
What if I destroy an Eye of Hazimel with Canine Horde?
The Canine Horde targeted the equipment, not the guy it's on. That that destruction has a side effect doesn't mean the strike was made against the opponent.
Along similar lines, Secure Haven means that "This minion cannot be the target of other Methuselahs' actions." But it doesn't protect cards on the minion:
www.vekn.net/card-rulings/card-rulings-p-to-z
Only directed actions targeting the minion are restricted. Actions that target retainers, equipment, or other cards on the minion (like Atonement) are allowable, as are actions that target card not on the minion, even if such cards have "named" or "chosen" that minion (like the Rack). [TOM 19951208] [LSJ 19980302]
So, for example, Arcanum Investigator is free to use its
action to burn the Eye of Hazimel. That the Eye of Hazimel burning would deal damage to the bearer doesn't suddenly transmogrify this into a action targeting the bearer him or herself.Does the Gemini Mirror protect from the damage dealt to the opposing minion by the destruction of the Eye?
Strikes targeting equipment (only) aren't strikes "against" the opponent, per the already cited [LSJ 20031118].
If the opponent play Pounce, a dodge will inflict him damage during the press step. Does the dodge cost 1 more?
That seems slightly arguable, but the damage comes from a side-effect on Pounce's text, not an effect of my strike, so it would seem very much more not the case.
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