file Diablerie, blood hunt, and Freak Drive

31 May 2017 13:10 - 31 May 2017 13:14 #82065 by TwoRazorReign
Q: Is the blood hunt referendum part of the diablerie action (or part of the action in which Amaranth/Ritual of the Bitter Rose was played)?

It's my understanding that the action ends, then the blood hunt is immediately conducted. Therefore, Freak Drive is played before the blood hunt referendum. Is this correct?

If this is correct, why is Lay Low an action modifier/combat card?

Freak Drive
[for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving the action). This vampire untaps.
[FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after combat, if any).

Lay Low
Only usable when a blood hunt referendum passes and would burn this anarch. Move this anarch to the uncontrolled region (breaking any temporary control effects). Any cards and counters on this vampire remain with him or her (but are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled).
Last edit: 31 May 2017 13:14 by TwoRazorReign.

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31 May 2017 13:29 - 31 May 2017 13:30 #82066 by jamesatzephyr

Q: Is the blood hunt referendum part of the diablerie action (or part of the action in which Amaranth/Ritual of the Bitter Rose was played)?


Sort of. It is handled independently of the action (the reason why action modifiers and reactions like Bewitching Oration etc. can't be played), but the action is still there. The action hadn't ended.


It's my understanding that the action ends, then the blood hunt is immediately conducted. Therefore, Freak Drive is played before the blood hunt referendum. Is this correct?


The action hasn't ended, no. Freak Drive gets played in its normal timing.

If this is correct, why is Lay Low an action modifier/combat card?


Because it's not correct.

A diablerie in combat is handled when it occurs, and then you return to the combat (which in most cases is ending immediately due to there not being someone to fight, but a few cards may slot in there).
Last edit: 31 May 2017 13:30 by jamesatzephyr.

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31 May 2017 13:30 #82067 by Ankha
The blood hunt is not part of the action. It "interrupts" the action though.

The correct order is:

Diablerie action resolves (see www.vekn.net/rulebook/6-minion-phase#6.5.5.diablerie)

A blood hunt is called (not part of the action).

The action resumes. Lay Low is played if the vampire would be burned. Or the vampire survives and plays Freak Drive.

It's the same thing in combat: the vampire plays Amaranth. A blood hunt is called (not part of the action or of the combat). After the blood hunt, if the vampire would be burned, he can play Lay Low.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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31 May 2017 13:43 #82068 by TwoRazorReign
Then why does the Rulebook (6.5.5) state:

"After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist."

This is causing a lot of confusion (jamesatzephyr, before you jump in saying it's not causing confusion, I'm referring to another forum where it is indeed causing a lot of confusion).

Does diablerie resolve before the action resolves? Where exactly in the overall action does diablerie resolve? Where exactly does the action get interrupted, then resume?

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31 May 2017 14:25 - 31 May 2017 14:26 #82069 by Ankha

Does diablerie resolve before the action resolves?

In the OP example, the action is a diablerie action. The diablerie resolves when the action resolves.

Where exactly in the overall action does diablerie resolve? Where exactly does the action get interrupted, then resume?

Do you mean the blood hunt referendum?

Anyway:
1/ the diablerie action resolves (get the blood, equipment, gain a Discipline cards etc.)
2/ the blood hunt referendum is called
3/ the action resumes

2/ is outside the action.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 31 May 2017 14:26 by Ankha.

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31 May 2017 15:32 - 31 May 2017 15:47 #82070 by TwoRazorReign

Does diablerie resolve before the action resolves?

In the OP example, the action is a diablerie action. The diablerie resolves when the action resolves.

Where exactly in the overall action does diablerie resolve? Where exactly does the action get interrupted, then resume?

Do you mean the blood hunt referendum?


Yes, I mean the blood hunt referendum.Thanks for clarifying.

Anyway:
1/ the diablerie action resolves (get the blood, equipment, gain a Discipline cards etc.)
2/ the blood hunt referendum is called
3/ the action resumes

2/ is outside the action.


In terms of the Detailed Play summary 6.2.3 (how to perform actions):

1. Diablerie action resolves (step D 2b).
2. Blood hunt referendum interrupts action between step D 2b and step E
3. Action resumes at step E

Is this correct or incorrect? Would the timing of the blood hunt referendum be different if the diablerie happened in combat via Amaranth vs the diablerie action?
Last edit: 31 May 2017 15:47 by TwoRazorReign.

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