file Can a vampire use multiple "attempt to block" effects?

21 Sep 2021 09:23 - 21 Sep 2021 09:25 #103223 by Miller
Current ruling on " Eluding the arms of morpheus " read: "Can be used by a vampire who is already attempting to block." 

Considering the following scenario:

Player A: declares an action with +1 stealth.

Player B: plays Eyes of Argus and another card that gives his vampire +1 Intercept, declaring a block. While replacing his cards Player B draws an "Eluding the arms of morpheus" and decides to play it as well. Nonetheless, Player A shouts "blocked" just after +1 intercept, while Player B is still playing his cards.

In the light of the current ruling and the discussion above, is Player B allowed to play his "Eluding the arms of morpheus"? 
Last edit: 21 Sep 2021 09:25 by Miller.

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21 Sep 2021 09:35 #103224 by Legion
Player B can play as many cards as he wants/allowed to play and only after that he passes the impulse to player A. What player A shouts or not do not relevant.

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21 Sep 2021 09:45 - 21 Sep 2021 09:51 #103226 by Bloodartist

Current ruling on " Eluding the arms of morpheus " read: "Can be used by a vampire who is already attempting to block." 

Considering the following scenario:

Player A: declares an action with +1 stealth.

Player B: plays Eyes of Argus and another card that gives his vampire +1 Intercept, declaring a block. While replacing his cards Player B draws an "Eluding the arms of morpheus" and decides to play it as well. Nonetheless, Player A shouts "blocked" just after +1 intercept, while Player B is still playing his cards.

In the light of the current ruling and the discussion above, is Player B allowed to play his "Eluding the arms of morpheus"? 


Player A plays as many cards as they want, and only then passes the impulse to player B. Player B plays as many of their cards as they want, and player A gets the opportunity to play cards again. 

Player B can play multiple cards in a row before they pass the impulse back, so playing eluding in this case is allowed. 

Its very common (and an unfortunate fault) for timing rules in VTES to force players to backtrack what they did in order to follow the rules.. Question of who has the opportunity to play which cards in what window is very muddled. 

For example, vast majority of time players do not have a direct intervention in their hand. But it is played in basically earliest possible window, and affects cards which can be played afterwards. Therefore players are often forced to backtrack their plays when someone actually HAS a DI and wants to use it, because pausing to ask "do you have a DI" After every single played card is clumsy as all hell.  

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 21 Sep 2021 09:51 by Bloodartist.

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21 Sep 2021 10:10 #103228 by Yomyael
Squencing rules are indeed complicated. From the rulebook:

Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to use the next card or effect.

So actually, player A may play as many cards as they want, impuls then goes to B, B play Eyes of Argus, impulse goes back to A, they pass impulse to B with B playing intercept and so on.

However, the call "blocked" is not a call for player A to make. In fact, after B has played sufficient intercept, player A can either play more cards or pass. If A passes, then B can either play another card or pass. Only if B passes at this point the action is blocked. However, B can play Eluding the Arms of Morpheus instead, giving A another opportunity to play a card.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
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21 Sep 2021 10:31 #103229 by Ankha

Squencing rules are indeed complicated. From the rulebook:

Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to use the next card or effect.

So actually, player A may play as many cards as they want, impuls then goes to B, B play Eyes of Argus, impulse goes back to A, they pass impulse to B with B playing intercept and so on.

However, the call "blocked" is not a call for player A to make. In fact, after B has played sufficient intercept, player A can either play more cards or pass. If A passes, then B can either play another card or pass. Only if B passes at this point the action is blocked. However, B can play Eluding the Arms of Morpheus instead, giving A another opportunity to play a card.

Correct.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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21 Sep 2021 10:34 #103230 by Miller

Squencing rules are indeed complicated. From the rulebook:

Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to use the next card or effect.

So actually, player A may play as many cards as they want, impuls then goes to B, B play Eyes of Argus, impulse goes back to A, they pass impulse to B with B playing intercept and so on.

However, the call "blocked" is not a call for player A to make. In fact, after B has played sufficient intercept, player A can either play more cards or pass. If A passes, then B can either play another card or pass. Only if B passes at this point the action is blocked. However, B can play Eluding the Arms of Morpheus instead, giving A another opportunity to play a card.

Correct.

Exactly how I thought of it ... thanks - )

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