file New round structure - OPTION B - we'd like your feedback!

18 May 2018 10:45 #87114 by Yomyael
I have a question regarding this change: With putting the timing window of pre-range stuff into the same window as manuevers, how would this work:

Acting vampire plays a set range effect, which would end the maneuver phase with current wording. Would the non-acting vampire be able to play other pre-range stuff like Carrion Crows?

Furthermore, with putting Immortal Grapple into this timing window, would a vampire be able to play IG after setting the range to close?

Prince of Bonn, Germany

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18 May 2018 10:57 #87115 by Kraus
Most likely the wordings would be changed to 'neither combatant can play more manouvers'.

Don't know how it would work with other, opposite set-range effect.

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18 May 2018 11:33 #87116 by elotar

Don't know how it would work with other, opposite set-range effect.


Obviously the same as it is now.

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18 May 2018 11:56 #87117 by Kraus
Yeah, "obviously", since presently the set-range cards skip the 'determine range' step where manouvers are played. You can't skip the whole 'approach' step where manouvers are also played in the B option.

Or you can, but I think it was discussed in this thread that it would not be a preferred approach.

So you have to rephrase them both into 'no more manouvers can be played', and make it explicit that you can't counter-set the range.

Not so obviously.

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18 May 2018 12:15 - 18 May 2018 12:26 #87118 by Bloodartist

Yeah, "obviously", since presently the set-range cards skip the 'determine range' step where manouvers are played. You can't skip the whole 'approach' step where manouvers are also played in the B option.

Or you can, but I think it was discussed in this thread that it would not be a preferred approach.

So you have to rephrase them both into 'no more manouvers can be played', and make it explicit that you can't counter-set the range.

Not so obviously.


This was a good point that I had missed myself. Set-range cards.

I think simpler solution would be to write set-range cards as:
"Range is automatically long. Further range-altering cards have no effect." (similarly set range to close)

This means that maneuver cards could be played before or after the set-range card for card cycling, thus enabling set-range card to be played in the maneuver step (approach, whatever). Also the first set-range card (or ability) would be the one that matters mostly empowering the active player.

Furthermore, with putting Immortal Grapple into this timing window, would a vampire be able to play IG after setting the range to close?

Ankha had an earlier suggestion that implied that grapple could be "countered" by playing a maneuver to long afterwards, thus weakening immortal grapple a fair bit. I think this is fine, since there already is a "fight for range", it just takes place before grapple can be played. I dont think grapple was ever intended to counter maneuvers, only strikes.

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Last edit: 18 May 2018 12:26 by Bloodartist. Reason: double negative

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18 May 2018 12:21 #87119 by Brum
I think it actually fits much better into other wordings on the rules.
The acting minion is much more empowered and the reacting minion is much more "reacting".

I have NO problems with people waiting to see if there's a Torn Signpost before maneuvering.
Or the other way around.

But please! Don't stop the progress of Combat because of 1 card.
If Immortal Grapple is such a beloved part of the game, I'm sure we can think of a way to keep the functionality, via ideas and play test.

Combat with 3 phases is the way to go, in my opinion.
And if new texts have to be made to staple cards, so be it.
Black Chantry needs to make money too.

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