New round structure - OPTION B - we'd like your feedback!

I have a question regarding this change: With putting the timing window of pre-range stuff into the same window as manuevers, how would this work:

Acting vampire plays a set range effect, which would end the maneuver phase with current wording. Would the non-acting vampire be able to play other pre-range stuff like Carrion Crows?

Furthermore, with putting Immortal Grapple into this timing window, would a vampire be able to play IG after setting the range to close?

Most likely the wordings would be changed to 'neither combatant can play more manouvers'.

Don't know how it would work with other, opposite set-range effect.

Kraus wrote:

Don't know how it would work with other, opposite set-range effect.

Obviously the same as it is now.

Yeah, "obviously", since presently the set-range cards skip the 'determine range' step where manouvers are played. You can't skip the whole 'approach' step where manouvers are also played in the B option.

Or you can, but I think it was discussed in this thread that it would not be a preferred approach.

So you have to rephrase them both into 'no more manouvers can be played', and make it explicit that you can't counter-set the range.

Not so obviously.

Kraus wrote:

Yeah, "obviously", since presently the set-range cards skip the 'determine range' step where manouvers are played. You can't skip the whole 'approach' step where manouvers are also played in the B option.

Or you can, but I think it was discussed in this thread that it would not be a preferred approach.

So you have to rephrase them both into 'no more manouvers can be played', and make it explicit that you can't counter-set the range.

Not so obviously.

This was a good point that I had missed myself. Set-range cards.

I think simpler solution would be to write set-range cards as:
"Range is automatically long. Further range-altering cards have no effect." (similarly set range to close)

This means that maneuver cards could be played before or after the set-range card for card cycling, thus enabling set-range card to be played in the maneuver step (approach, whatever). Also the first set-range card (or ability) would be the one that matters mostly empowering the active player.

Yomyael wrote:

Furthermore, with putting Immortal Grapple into this timing window, would a vampire be able to play IG after setting the range to close?

Ankha had an earlier suggestion that implied that grapple could be "countered" by playing a maneuver to long afterwards, thus weakening immortal grapple a fair bit. I think this is fine, since there already is a "fight for range", it just takes place before grapple can be played. I dont think grapple was ever intended to counter maneuvers, only strikes.

I think it actually fits much better into other wordings on the rules.
The acting minion is much more empowered and the reacting minion is much more "reacting".

I have NO problems with people waiting to see if there's a Torn Signpost before maneuvering.
Or the other way around.

But please! Don't stop the progress of Combat because of 1 card.
If Immortal Grapple is such a beloved part of the game, I'm sure we can think of a way to keep the functionality, via ideas and play test.

Combat with 3 phases is the way to go, in my opinion.
And if new texts have to be made to staple cards, so be it.
Black Chantry needs to make money too.