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file Vampires entering play: triggered effects and contesting

17 Dec 2018 16:56 - 17 Dec 2018 17:00 #92435 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic contested Nana

"As played" effects apply because the card is played before it becomes contested.
Other effects don't apply because they would apply when the card is in play, but it is contested instead.


That really doesn't make sense.

You asked for the rulings, and they are consistent. Im sorry if it doesn't make sense to you.

"As played" effects apply because the card is played before it becomes contested.
Other effects don't apply because they would apply when the card is in play, but it is contested instead.


Anarch convert isn't played, he merely enters play. I have hard time understanding how his ability is an "as played" effect.


There is an analogy between cards in your hand, and cards in your uncontrolled region. They are both played to enter play (but the mechanism is different).

I was under impression that cards "being played" mean specifically cards that are played from hand

No. The general rule is that you have to play a card (either from your hand, crypt or somewhere) to make it enter play. Other way to put card in play are exceptions.

"As played" effects apply because the card is played before it becomes contested.
Other effects don't apply because they would apply when the card is in play, but it is contested instead.


Then convert should contest a convert if used to change sect?

No.
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/zO3l3b76rjQ/da5R20AzyO4J

You do the "enters play"/"is played" stuff when the card is played (like
targeting the Rack or Anarch Convert's conversion). Effects of the
to-be-contested card being in play (like Elder Library's +hand size) are not
applied.

So, yes, you can do the Anarch Convert effect (removing the Convert from the
game to make another vampire an anarch) when the card enters play, even if
another Anarch Convert is in play and would contest your incoming copy.

Prince of Paris, France
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Last edit: 17 Dec 2018 17:00 by Ankha.

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17 Dec 2018 18:26 - 17 Dec 2018 18:26 #92436 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic contested Nana
So does it contest? That was the question. Nothing there addresses that directly.
Last edit: 17 Dec 2018 18:26 by Mewcat.

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17 Dec 2018 19:25 - 17 Dec 2018 19:26 #92439 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic contested Nana

So does it contest? That was the question. Nothing there addresses that directly.

Since you are not quoting anything, you are referring to the original post, right? ;) Nana contests, yes.

If you are talking about the Anarch Convert, I already answered explicitly above.
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Last edit: 17 Dec 2018 19:26 by Ankha.

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17 Dec 2018 20:50 #92444 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic contested Nana

"As played" effects apply because the card is played before it becomes contested.
Other effects don't apply because they would apply when the card is in play, but it is contested instead.


So to be clear; with crypt cards only the "When X enters play" or "When Y is moved to the ready region" part of card text has an effect — all other parts of the card text are ignored.

So Erlik's transfer special kicks in, but not his hand size:

Erlik
Sabbat: As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls. +1 bleed. +1 hand size.
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17 Dec 2018 22:45 - 17 Dec 2018 22:51 #92450 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic contested Nana

So does it contest? That was the question. Nothing there addresses that directly.

Since you are not quoting anything, you are referring to the original post, right? ;) Nana contests, yes.

If you are talking about the Anarch Convert, I already answered explicitly above.


I'm sorry I was unclear. Please explain the steps to influencing out a minion in a step by step manner.

It seems like this

1, may reveal minion if enough blood

2, as played effects happen

3, if minion still exists and would contest do so

4, if no contest minion enters play

Even though this is direct contradiction of rule book, so be it.
Last edit: 17 Dec 2018 22:51 by Mewcat.

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17 Dec 2018 23:25 - 17 Dec 2018 23:35 #92452 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic contested Nana

Even though this is direct contradiction of rule book, so be it.


I agree, This is about as contradictory as it can get. The handsize from Nana is not an "as played"-effect, it is a continuous effect. It should be checked always and immediately, since nowhere is it ruled otherwise.

The number of cards in your hand should always match your hand size (cards that are replaced later reduce your hand size for the duration of the effect). Whenever they don't match (when an effect changes your hand size or adds or removes cards from your hand, for example), immediately discard down to or draw up to your hand size.


EDIT: In the rulebook, the term "playing cards" is only defined under the library cards section (see: 1.6.1.1 playing cards). According to the rulebook, vampires being influenced out is not playing cards. They are placed in the ready region. Can you at least make a cursory attempt to follow your own rulebook?

An uncontrolled vampire (see Play Area, sec. 2.3) will have blood counters stacked on it representing the amount of influence that has been invested in him. When that stack equals his blood capacity at the end of the influence phase, you reveal the vampire and place him in the ready region (see Play Area, sec. 2.3). He retains the blood counters used to influence him on his card to serve as his blood (see Influence Phase, sec. 7).

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Last edit: 17 Dec 2018 23:35 by Bloodartist.

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