Undead Persistence and Psyche!

Ankha wrote:

The ruling stands. UP has a circumvoluted wording that basically says: the vampire cannot go to torpor in combat, and goes to torpor after (all) combats have ended. The "3 rounds" effects is also a terrible idea for what it's worth.

If you can play Obedience to prevent a queued Psyche! combat, which you can, then why is there no window to check for the wounded vampire state between combats? When one combat ends, it ends. You can do things before the next queued combat (like Obedience); transitioning to the next combat is not instantaneous.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/R94tyTGJ6VQ/m/KxvkGm1aon8J

Pascal wrote:

Marthe can play Psyche! at the end of a round of combat, retrieve it after combat (say in the "Obedience window"), and start the new combat.

above is another ruling insinuating the same point as kschaefer´s post, that there is a window between the initial combat ending, in which the UP:ed vampire should be going to torpor, and the new Psyche! combat.

Both "will not go to torpor until combat ends" and "This vampire is sent into torpor after combat." seem to fit into the above-mentioned window.

In the same spirit, wouldn´t a Dodge, Quick Jab, Lucky Blow, etc. be replaced until the end of the Psyche! combat? which also falls into the above-mentioned window.

"After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion." implies that the current combat is ended before beginning another combat.

As an aside, this would be much more clear if you could only start a new combat from outside of combat.

Superior Psyche! used to be played outside of combat, but was a combat card. We introduced combo cards that were combat and other things, like actions modifiers, but instead of making Psyche! fit that model, which it already did, we moved the new combat queue into the current combat. This is just a bad idea.

Things would be more clear if superior Psyche! were an action modifier/reaction card.

kschaefer wrote:

As an aside, this would be much more clear if you could only start a new combat from outside of combat.

Superior Psyche! used to be played outside of combat, but was a combat card. We introduced combo cards that were combat and other things, like actions modifiers, but instead of making Psyche! fit that model, which it already did, we moved the new combat queue into the current combat. This is just a bad idea.

It would make things simpler also if psyche was played within combat, but resolved only once combat ended. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the exact timing when psyche is playable, since no matter when, the end result would be the same. Currently playing a card and resolving it is instantaneous (except for exeptions because vtes). It would make things far simpler if we detached card being played and its resolution from each other.

I for one think that the change to Psyche! that it is played within the combat was a good one to align this combat card to work like all others (only playable in a combat) and don´t actually see that as a problem nor that it "queues" a combat.

The problematic part, in my opinion, is rulings that tie the two combats together without the possibility to lose the queued combat and create the notion that the first combat ends at the start of the Psyche! combat which is nonsense. The only tie they should have is that they are both combats part of the same action resolution. The queued combat should be handled just like we handle superior Blur (while not being under the effect of UP or the likes) which is if in the first additional strike one of the minions is wounded the second additional strike is just lost, meaning that if a minion is wounded between a combat and a "queued" Psyche! combat the latter is lost as one of the minions goes to torpor before the "queued" combat gets a chance to start.