file Self-contesting unique cards that are out of play // Temptation during action

19 Nov 2019 14:16 - 19 Nov 2019 22:36 #97912 by Kilrauko

Temptation may be used in a player’s Minion phase. May it be used mid action, for any of the following effects (as examples)? A is always the one controlling Temptation, and Temptation counters are assumed to always match the blood count on the minion.

Same caveat as earlier with possibility of some/all of these being old and obsolete.
LSJ posted the following in 2001 regarding reply The Lasombra made on question when one can use the Temptation;

The Lasombra wrote:
> Mongrel Matt Hirsch asked:
> "Can a Methuselah burn the counters on Temptation in response to a
> successful block by the tempted vampire?"
> Yes.
> There is no limit on when you may burn the counters except during your
> minion phase and when the counters equal the blood.


a) On A’s turn, they take an action. Minion with Temptation attempts to block. Temptation may be triggered to end the block attempt, and the action continues. Correct?


tigernat1 wrote:
> the setup:
> Methuselah A has a temptation with 1 counter on minion b (1 blood) of
> Methuselah B
> Methuselah A declares a bleed. Methuselah B declares a block with
> minion b. Methuselah A plays stealth. Methuselah B plays matching
> intercept with minion b. Can Methuselah A use temptation to take
> control of minion b and thus continue with the action even though
> blockers had been declared?


b) On A’s turn, B’s minion takes a Bleed action (Enkil Cog, Madness Network…). The action is blocked, and during any moment in the combat A may use Temptation to end the action and combat. The minion may not attempt a Bleed action anymore, since the Bleed action reached resolution (blocked). Correct?


Regarding usage of Temptation to end combat;

... > > 7. I know, for sure, this question has been answered quite recently, but
> > just can't seem to find it anywhere, so I'll just have to ask it again,
> > now won't I ;) Can the use of temptation interrupt an action, or say in
> > the middle of combat??
> yes. it's possible, you just burn the counters and end combat.

Correct. ...

There are caveats to what things should be resolved before the combat ends like the damage from strikes if the counters are burned during strike resolution.

Regarding attempting second bleed on same turn after action has resolved the rulebook has the following parts that I'll quote in short form;

... Each action is resolved (successful or blocked) before another action can be attempted. ...

And of course the;

... A minion cannot perform more than one bleed action each turn, even if he unlocks. ...

c) On A’s Turn, B’s minion takes a Bleed action (Enkil Cog, Madness Network…). A declines blocks, B plays Conditioning. Before resolving successfully Temptation is triggered, ending the action. The Bleed action did not reach resolution (successful or blocked), and A may Bleed with that minion during their turn. Correct?

I assume the action ends because the target of the bleed is suddenly illegal as there are no other players then A and B in the table.
Temptation changes the controller of the vampire as quoted above.
EDIT: By LSJ 1997, the action just ends.
Rulebook has the following passage regarding bleed targets that;

[ quote ]...Some cards or effects may allow or force you to bleed a Methuselah other than your prey. You can never bleed yourself, however. ...[/ quote ]

// I would include a direct quote about self bleed end result terminology with untap and the bleed following it but some tasks materialized before I finished this post so it's up to others. Unless someone provides it I'll try to provide more meat on it and edit to include it here.

EDIT: After giving this further ponder during our weekly game on the table, I started to lean more towards this being a case where in the past (1997) it was declared that action just ends. Specifically here.

14) If a minion takes an action but the acting player loses control of it
before the action is successful, the action simply ends. A player loses
control of a minion that is burned, stolen, and so on. Note that a vampire
that goes into torpor (or that began the action while in torpor) is still
controlled by the acting player, so it can complete the action.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 19 Nov 2019 22:36 by Kilrauko. Reason: Tried to find solution to C from the past.

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