file Confirmation needed : Catatonic Fear VS Disarm

05 Feb 2021 13:33 - 05 Feb 2021 13:45 #101559 by Yomyael

Dear all,

I am not sure kschaefer:
Must be played after the presses are handled and can be played if the round ends prematurely. [RTR 20030519]

Source:
codex-of-the-damned.org/en/card-search.html?card=Disarm

From the rulebook (of the website)
"7. End of Round

In this step you use the combat cards or other effects that are only usable at the end of a round of combat, after the press step.

Note that this step also occurs even if combat ends prematurely."

Regards,
Rémi.


Indeed, S:CE does not skip the "End of Round" phase. However, damage from Catatonic Fear does not happen until after that phase has ended. So there is no damage for Disarm to see (unless of course other cards were played). That is the reason, why you can't play Disarm if your only damaging effect is from Catatonic Fear. If there were something else, then you could play Disarm.

Also, in regard to what kschaefer said: there is a distinction between "End of Round", "End of Combat" and "After combat ends". The first two cases are still in combat, the third one, however, is not. All three things happen always after S:CE, but in the 3rd case combat cards cannot be played anymore, because combat has ended at that point.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
Last edit: 05 Feb 2021 13:45 by Yomyael.
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05 Feb 2021 14:02 - 05 Feb 2021 14:03 #101562 by Ankha

By the way, the first one is wrong for me since you can always play "end of round cards" at the end of the last round of any combats.

Nope, it's correct. You cannot play a combat card _after_ combat. The end of combat is not _after_ combat.

I am not sure kschaefer:
Must be played after the presses are handled and can be played if the round ends prematurely. [RTR 20030519]

Source:
codex-of-the-damned.org/en/card-search.html?card=Disarm

From the rulebook (of the website)
"7. End of Round

In this step you use the combat cards or other effects that are only usable at the end of a round of combat, after the press step.

Note that this step also occurs even if combat ends prematurely."

Both are correct.
You cannot play combat cards AFTER the end of combat.
If the combat ends, you can play cards during the "end of round" step (which is NOT after combat).

The reason for Disarm not being able to be played is because the time window is skipped by the Strike: Combat Ends of Catatonic Fear. Disarm is to be played at the End of Round step which never happens as the combat is ended prematurely.

This is incorrect. When a combat ends, the round ends, and you can play cards that are played at the end of a round.
Similarily, if a vampire in combat is sent to torpor, the combat ends immediately, but the opposing vampire can still play Decapitate.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 05 Feb 2021 14:03 by Ankha. Reason: fixed typo
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05 Feb 2021 14:12 - 05 Feb 2021 15:46 #101564 by inm8
My mistake for not reading all the text of End of Round and assuming Combat End description of ending the combat immediately was the end of it.

I would like to suggest to add the detail to the rulebook description of the "Strike Effect - Combat Ends" that it in effect skips ahead to step "7 End of Round" of the combat sequence. Also a mention that Combat End can be invoked as an effect in combat and not only as a "Strike Effect" (ie superior Alpha Glint) resulting in the same, skipping ahead to step "7 End of Round".
Last edit: 05 Feb 2021 15:46 by inm8. Reason: Further addition to the suggestion

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05 Feb 2021 18:54 #101568 by kschaefer

Dear all,

I am not sure kschaefer:
Must be played after the presses are handled and can be played if the round ends prematurely. [RTR 20030519]

...

In this step you use the combat cards or other effects that are only usable at the end of a round of combat, after the press step.

Note that this step also occurs even if combat ends prematurely."

You're missing the point. The Catatonic Fear damage occurs after combat, not during combat. There is a window where end of round effects can be played, but you do not meet the criteria to play Disarm because you've not done any damage (yet).

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07 Feb 2021 13:46 - 07 Feb 2021 13:47 #101576 by Rémi
Hi,

The point is not missed.
The catatonic damage is inflicted after combat, that part has been clearly OK since the first answer. There were two questions.
Everything is fine now.

Regards,
Rémi.

I am Rémi Cavaillé (), Barcelona (SPAIN). I was the Prince of Lyon (FRANCE) in 2003 :)
Last edit: 07 Feb 2021 13:47 by Rémi.

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