file what happens if you announce an illegal action?/play an illegal card?

18 Jun 2021 20:02 - 18 Jun 2021 20:05 #102504 by Hobbesgoblin
a) what hapens if you play a card on superior, but realize the vampire had only the dicipline on inferior. is the card automatically played on inferior, or does it go back to the hand, or fizles?

b) What happens if you play a card with X costs and announce an X that turn out to be illegal? do you retake the action, or do you have to re-announce it in a legal way if possible?

example: I announced Eldest Command Undeath with x=8 (because I forgot I can't choose a crosstable target), after annoucement we realized that a) I can't choose a vamprie crosstable and b) my prey didnt have any vampires with capacity under 8, but i could have anounced it at 9 (there was enough blood to spend) to have a legal target.

eldest command undeath
Last edit: 18 Jun 2021 20:05 by Hobbesgoblin.

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18 Jun 2021 21:53 - 18 Jun 2021 21:57 #102505 by Kilrauko

a) what hapens if you play a card on superior, but realize the vampire had only the dicipline on inferior. is the card automatically played on inferior, or does it go back to the hand, or fizles?

b) What happens if you play a card with X costs and announce an X that turn out to be illegal? do you retake the action, or do you have to re-announce it in a legal way if possible?

example: I announced Eldest Command Undeath with x=8 (because I forgot I can't choose a crosstable target), after annoucement we realized that a) I can't choose a vamprie crosstable and b) my prey didnt have any vampires with capacity under 8, but i could have anounced it at 9 (there was enough blood to spend) to have a legal target.
...


 

The Same that happens when you dirty stack in poker or perform any other faux pas in any game. Depending on the group, you're either allowed full rewind, fizzle, forfeit the card and counters to ash, get called a cheater and shunned by the group or everyone just rolls with it. Sky's really the limit as the solution deals more on how the group interprets the game as a social construct. Rules are clear, one cannot attempt what one cannot do, hence you should never move to redrawing cards and therefore should be able to just take back that one step. However we all know hectic play tends to make the game move faster then calls for right things can happen.

For tournament play www.vekn.net/judges-guide ?
Warning: Spoiler!


Aka the player is warned cautioned that their play is wrong and they need to make the correct play that is possible at the game state that existed. Judges guide deals with this as follows;

Warning: Spoiler!


TL:DR Depends.

Seriously, it depends so much on the circumstances. In our casual table, you would take the card back to your hand, place the card you drew on top of your deck and continue playing from that point onwards hopefully more aware of how your cards work. Or if you elected to waste the card and fizzle it if nobody blocked or reacted, that would be dandy too. I'll let the tournament people comment how they would solve the a & b situations in sanctioned play and hopefully they will also comment how their casual groups handle such things.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 18 Jun 2021 21:57 by Kilrauko. Reason: Code to spoilers.

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19 Jun 2021 07:54 #102509 by Hobbesgoblin
Sure In casual it doesn't really matter/the local paly group decies what to run with, but this happend in our local playgroups league, wich tries to mimic a somewhat tournament adjacent environment, basically as a trainign ground for sancitoned play, so how an official judge would, well, judge the sitation is what I am really interested in. ^^

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19 Jun 2021 14:04 #102513 by ruiza97
As Prince, I regularly give -1 vps for sloppy play. So sometimes I win cause I'm the only player at 0 still, while others in the negative.

As for your league play then, DQ the player. That will learn them.

Prince of Dallas
next Vtes games in Dallas will be Saturday, May 22nd.

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20 Jun 2021 08:01 #102517 by lip
Kilrauko gave the detailed info from the judges guide, they’re correct.

a) play is illegal - caution and rollback. This is in case you figure it out soon enough after the play. Otherwise YRMV

b) play is legal (the announced blood cost could be paid at the moment the action was announced) - no rollback, keep playing as announced.

We’re often more lenient in casual play (cases like b could be rollbacked for example) but in tournament play there is no doubt: what is announced stands, except if I announcement was illegal.
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21 Jun 2021 15:49 #102536 by Lönkka

As Prince, I regularly give -1 vps for sloppy play. So sometimes I win cause I'm the only player at 0 still, while others in the negative.

As for your league play then, DQ the player. That will learn them.
 

:o
I can't even...

You actively want to discourage people from playing VTES by creating an anal-retentive club or something? For me VTES is all about having fun and I think with the Dallas way the fun has stopped a long time ago...

NC, Finland
Finnish :POT: Politics!
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