Direct Intervention

Kilrauko wrote:

Millicent wrote:

3 seconds, 2 seconds, it doesn't matter. The fact is that there should be a specific period of time to respond and that no one should try to take advantage, as is currently the case. No matter how complicated the decision is, you can't spend 30 seconds stealing time from the table.

The rules make mention of time wasting, but in this specific case and in all similar ones (Eagle's Sight, Anneke, etc.) they never apply because there is a limbo in this regard. The main idea would be to give fluidity to the game at any time during the game.

If a player plays his cards without giving way to cancellation windows, clearly, there is a lack of knowledge of punishable rules. Any lack of rigor is punishable, but in this case it is enhanced by the lack of a specific and universal modus operandi.

This reply is partly made with humorous tone, I'm trying to point out how I feel the idea of set multiple time limits is absurd but I thank you for having the guts to challenge existing tradition with your suggestion. I feel it should have been it's own topic instead this hijack of thread from 2021 with OP asking whether or not they should wait for opponent to play multiple cards before playing DI.

As for the notion of x amount of seconds to be put in rules, yes we should because in other competitive hobbies with multiple participants and one time limit for all it's commonplace. Take association football for example, every time there's need to throw the ball or kick from corner, rules clearly state how many seconds... Oh wait, they do not. That sport played at highest levels does not require artificial limits as long as the referee is allowed to make calls on the play and whether or not something is stalling.

Oh and if people don't believe me, check Laws of the Game www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/laws-of-the-game/2024-25/laws-of-the-game-2024-25.ashx on page 112 and then see how much need is there to set some time limits for Throw-in at page 131. I'm eagerly waiting to see the justification how cardboard game with friends and few strangers requires more accurate and objective ruling then sports that can cause riots where people are injured/killed if bad judgement calls or disliked plays are made (all the best to the people in football loving nations of Latin America who know what I'm talking about.) Is the highest number still at 358 dead with that 1960's Peru match?

So yeah, if they can manage with "judge decides how time should be used and compensated" perhaps we with our printed cardboard game can as well, that way people can concentrate on playing the game instead of counting the seconds in their heads. Unless of course I'm allowed to bring very loud and very obnoxious non-electronic metronome in to help me with that, after all it's required to keep track of the game at that point. Perhaps one where there's nice little bell that tings in addition to help everyone else to keep track as well...

I'm joking with the metronome of course, as a bad ex drummer, I can just tap the beat with the bottom of my squeky shoe, people will just love that. Now extrapolate that for couple players per table keeping their own rythm and time, multiplied with 5-10 tables in a same large room.

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to this topic. We can draw several conclusions here, besides knowing the absolutely necessary fact that you play the drums badly. The first would be that your sense of humor is like my English, filtered, coarse and in need of translator, ultimately avoidable. And on the other hand, the idea of mental counting is comparable to the infinite patience we must have when time and time again the phases are played wrongly and no time is given to respond to the corresponding windows (or it is granted in excess for convenience), except that this counting would allow universalizing the sequence, prevent others from taking advantage, avoid wasting time, and so on.

It must be taken into account that we play with players of all levels and it is difficult for everyone to play correctly something that is not typified. No longer the loss of time, the theft of time is constant between interactions. Without being serious problems, I think that dealing with them would improve the experience.
If we want to imagine the absurdity there is no need to invent anything, we have it every day we sit at the table. In the end it is only a suggestion, my experience in this game is decades, allow me to draw objective conclusions about small redundant problems.

Take it as a small dissertation.

Millicent wrote:

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to this topic. We can draw several conclusions here, besides knowing the absolutely necessary fact that you play the drums badly. The first would be that your sense of humor is like my English, filtered, coarse and in need of translator, ultimately avoidable. And on the other hand, the idea of mental counting is comparable to the infinite patience we must have when time and time again the phases are played wrongly and no time is given to respond to the corresponding windows (or it is granted in excess for convenience), except that this counting would allow universalizing the sequence, prevent others from taking advantage, avoid wasting time, and so on.

It must be taken into account that we play with players of all levels and it is difficult for everyone to play correctly something that is not typified. No longer the loss of time, the theft of time is constant between interactions. Without being serious problems, I think that dealing with them would improve the experience.
If we want to imagine the absurdity there is no need to invent anything, we have it every day we sit at the table. In the end it is only a suggestion, my experience in this game is decades, allow me to draw objective conclusions about small redundant problems.

Take it as a small dissertation.

Football is not played at every level of skill? I'll be sure to make note of that next time when walking past local fields with kids having their tournaments on them and thinking how they somehow can handle the time control better then some VTES players. I recommend you pay closer attention to the card boxes you buy next time, BCP prints on them the 14+ mark indicating age recommendation. One can and should expect teenagers and adults to have capability to time control their actions, if they do not, it honestly might not be the game's fault and lie in the person. But just because your playgroup seemingly is filled with these players, does not mean *everyone* around the globe should be forced to conform according to it. Perhaps discuss the matter through with your playgroup. You might learn a thing or two about them as a person that helps you decide how to move further.

There's always the www.vekn.net/storyline-events/build-your-own-storyline where you can create "Time's ticking" storyline and have matches with your group to see if it fixes the issues you are experiencing. Do report back, I'm interested to hear how the players have felt when forced to follow that as I'm sure BCP will be as well. Who knows, maybe it'll do what groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/dgrpf4wTwQ8/m/ZNhzLJeXx5cJ did and codify some things that apply to all even decades later, it after all was not just random post years later on already answered thread but a pre-tested set of conditions made in attempt to actually achieve something based around proven concepts.

Now if there's been some misunderstanding and you've rigorously play-tested with these suggestions of yours and collected anonymized feedback to ensure social relationships do not skew the results, provide them please. It can hardly work as dissertation, even a small one, without work and findings. But as you did not lead with them in it's own separate topic, this is just derailment of a original topic from 2021 that was answered and laid to rest in 2022 yet for some reason was necroed up. Perhaps it's the release of Hecata and it's influence.

Also if the topic of time control and theft of time interests you further, I suggest you turn towards European players who have actually tested playing with app tracking how much play time each player uses during a game and how using such app changes the dynamic of the game. Hearing on it was very interesting during EC, tho for the life of me I cannot remember if it was French, Spanish or Italian players... and that's fully on me, as being able to pinpoint a face from a crowd does not help the same way online. I'm sure if you can holler in the discord about it someone will direct you towards them, perhaps you can even discuss in direct messages why they've not tried to change rules despite having plenty of games and data and whether or not you can reference their findings. Making a new topic on VEKN forum should also work, tho be prepared to wait a little while as they might not be that active.