file Sup Foreshadoing Destruction when the target has 10 or more pool

10 Oct 2021 09:32 #103501 by Ankha

The fact that it took a news letter Q/A 5 questions to cover all the nuances of how and why this works as it does shows how very unclear it is and is a failure for the rulebook to clearly explain something that is very fundamental to the game.

The rulebook is clear: "a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount".
If the action modifier card does not increase the bleed, it does not count against the limit the moment you play it.

but isn´t it still an action modifier card played to increase the bleed amount (which is what is limited as per the rules)???

Does it increase the bleed? No => it does not count against the limit.

Rulebook says:
During a bleed action, a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount. This rule is reminded on those cards by the “(limited)” card text.

You cannot emphasize just part of the sentence. "to increase the bleed amount" is equally important.

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10 Oct 2021 12:23 #103507 by inm8

The fact that it took a news letter Q/A 5 questions to cover all the nuances of how and why this works as it does shows how very unclear it is and is a failure for the rulebook to clearly explain something that is very fundamental to the game.

The rulebook is clear: "a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount".
If the action modifier card does not increase the bleed, it does not count against the limit the moment you play it.

Not so clear to all it seems as proven by the need to clarify.

but isn´t it still an action modifier card played to increase the bleed amount (which is what is limited as per the rules)???

Does it increase the bleed? No => it does not count against the limit.

I understand that this is how it is being rationalized.

Rulebook says:
During a bleed action, a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount. This rule is reminded on those cards by the “(limited)” card text.

You cannot emphasize just part of the sentence. "to increase the bleed amount" is equally important.

Agree that the last part is equally important. My intention (which i failed to convey) with the emphasizing is that for some of us it read as that the intent and not the actual result is limited, this because of the wording "a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card to increase the bleed amount." ...to play a card for an effect and actually being able to apply the effect of the played card is not the same thing...if it was worded something like "a minion cannot play more than one action modifier card that increases the bleed amount." it would be more clear about it being about result and not intent.

As always thanks for your patience and time.

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19 Oct 2021 08:18 #103589 by inm8
Ankha can you please enlighten us, from further discussions in the discord, I have the following question...

Methuselah M1 uses Vampire V1 to bleed Methuselah M2 being at 8 pool with superior Foreshadowing Destruction for 4 (1 + 3 from FD) reaching the "limit".
Methuselah M2 bounces the bleed to Methuselah M3 being at 12 pool and thereby the bleed is now for 1 as the FD effect isn't applicable any longer.
Can Vampire V1 play inferior Bonding to bleed Methuselah M3 for 2 (1 + 1 from Bond.)?


I'm assuming Bonding cannot be played as the "limit" has been reached when Foreshadowing Destruction was initially played even though its effect is no longer applicable at the end.

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19 Oct 2021 09:24 - 19 Oct 2021 09:24 #103593 by Ankha

Ankha can you please enlighten us, from further discussions in the discord, I have the following question...

Methuselah M1 uses Vampire V1 to bleed Methuselah M2 being at 8 pool with superior Foreshadowing Destruction for 4 (1 + 3 from FD) reaching the "limit".
Methuselah M2 bounces the bleed to Methuselah M3 being at 12 pool and thereby the bleed is now for 1 as the FD effect isn't applicable any longer.
Can Vampire V1 play inferior Bonding to bleed Methuselah M3 for 2 (1 + 1 from Bond.)?

Yes, since Foreshadowing Destruction is no longer increasing the bleed.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 19 Oct 2021 09:24 by Ankha.
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19 Oct 2021 09:51 #103594 by Khaan

Ankha can you please enlighten us, from further discussions in the discord, I have the following question...

Methuselah M1 uses Vampire V1 to bleed Methuselah M2 being at 8 pool with superior Foreshadowing Destruction for 4 (1 + 3 from FD) reaching the "limit".
Methuselah M2 bounces the bleed to Methuselah M3 being at 12 pool and thereby the bleed is now for 1 as the FD effect isn't applicable any longer.
Can Vampire V1 play inferior Bonding to bleed Methuselah M3 for 2 (1 + 1 from Bond.)?

Yes, since Foreshadowing Destruction is no longer increasing the bleed.


@Ankha: And if M2 then bounces the bleed to a Methuselah who has less than 10 pool, the Foreshadowing destruction superior effect will once again activate, now in combination with the bonding, giving a bleed for 1 base + 3 FD + 1 bonding = 5.

Right?

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19 Oct 2021 11:02 - 19 Oct 2021 11:12 #103595 by inm8

Ankha can you please enlighten us, from further discussions in the discord, I have the following question...

Methuselah M1 uses Vampire V1 to bleed Methuselah M2 being at 8 pool with superior Foreshadowing Destruction for 4 (1 + 3 from FD) reaching the "limit".
Methuselah M2 bounces the bleed to Methuselah M3 being at 12 pool and thereby the bleed is now for 1 as the FD effect isn't applicable any longer.
Can Vampire V1 play inferior Bonding to bleed Methuselah M3 for 2 (1 + 1 from Bond.)?

Yes, since Foreshadowing Destruction is no longer increasing the bleed.


Now I think I understand the full scope of "limited" on bleeds.

The "limit" prevents the ability to play an action modifier card that would increase the bleed amount of a bleed action if there is already an effect actively increasing the bleed amount which is sourced from an action modifier card.

Thanks

@Ankha: And if M2 then bounces the bleed to a Methuselah who has less than 10 pool, the Foreshadowing destruction superior effect will once again activate, now in combination with the bonding, giving a bleed for 1 base + 3 FD + 1 bonding = 5.

Right?


I assume you mean M3 bounces to someone with 9 or less i.e back to M2. The answer is yes for 5 based on the ruling mentioned earlier [PIB 20110817] and re-confirmed by the newsletter section about it from Ankha
Last edit: 19 Oct 2021 11:12 by inm8.
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