file Peacemaker vs. Talbot's Chainsaw

10 Mar 2022 06:27 - 10 Mar 2022 06:28 #104777 by kschaefer
If a vampire successfully blocks a minion using Talbot's Chainsaw to enter combat and plays Peacemaker at :OBE:, what happens now that the acting minion is unable to use weapons?

Talbot's Chainsaw
Warning: Spoiler!


Peacemaker
Warning: Spoiler!
Last edit: 10 Mar 2022 06:28 by kschaefer. Reason: Fix formatting.

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10 Mar 2022 07:12 - 10 Mar 2022 08:09 #104778 by inm8
The action to enter combat with the minion that played Peacemaker "continues" and the Talbot's Chainsaw cannot be used to strike, to press nor to prevent damage and the acting minion has -2 bleed and -2 strength.

The action being able to continue is not dependent on the usage of the weapon as the action is already played/declared.
Last edit: 10 Mar 2022 08:09 by inm8. Reason: I was wrong see next post

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10 Mar 2022 08:13 - 10 Mar 2022 08:19 #104779 by Timo
Actually, it seems not so simple :

if you enter combat with a nose of the hound at :aus: and the target plays a reaction to unlock, the action fizzle.

Name: Nose of the Hound
Warning: Spoiler!


I agree that the case is not the same because it is not the target which became illegal but the action itself.

Similarly, we could imagine a sabbat vampire who have a writ of acceptance and a praxis of any city and the writ is no longer on them before the resolution of a parity shift. (for example a block, a canine horde to burn the writ and a form of mist)

Name: Writ of Acceptance
Warning: Spoiler!


I would rule that the parity shift now fizzle.

But there could be some hidden interaction with the way action are done.

Ankha ?


EDITH :
I went here to check if it was answered and it was :
www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79001-the-question-of-the-month-action-fizzles#104680

An action that fizzles is a successful action (= not blocked) whose effects cannot be applied because:
1/ the target (or ALL the targets) has become illegal during the course of the action
2/ things happened during the course of the action that prevent the action from happening*
3/ the cost of the action cannot be paid anymore

So, if the action is successful, one needs to check points 1 and 2. If the action fizzles because of 1/ or 2/, the action is not paid.
If the action fizzles because of 3/, the acting minion must pay as much as possible, and the action fizzles.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/V3uIITe1wug/m/P-WH48zhoc8J

*: for instance, the minion with a Bomb uses the Bomb action to burn a location, but doesn't have the Bomb anymore upon resolution.


the bomb parallel make it so IMO.
Last edit: 10 Mar 2022 08:19 by Timo.

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10 Mar 2022 08:18 #104780 by inm8
The continued action fizzles (assuming it isn't blocked again) at action resolution as the weapon providing the action cannot be used.

I'm equating the inability to use the equipment to the equipment have been destroyed.
[LSJ 20050805]
[RTR 19960221]

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10 Mar 2022 17:07 #104791 by kschaefer
My assumption was "fizzle," but I couldn't find a compelling corollary example. I think your [LSJ 20050805] link is a good base case for this.

I'd still like to get Ankha's confirmation. Just to be sure.

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10 Mar 2022 19:56 - 10 Mar 2022 20:02 #104792 by Legion
Sorry, but I didn’t get a question. If someone uses Talbot Chainsaw (d) ability, blocking minion cannot use pacemaker because action was directed to the minion and not you.

And assuming hypothetical situation when minion can use pacemaker, I don’t remember anything in the rules preventing minion use hand strikes in combat in that case.
Last edit: 10 Mar 2022 20:02 by Legion.

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