file Nightstick and defensive strikes

12 Aug 2022 12:13 #105950 by inm8
Discussion from the discord prompted the following questions:

1) Combat is at long range
Vampire A (of strength 1) strikes with Kerrie (R strength damage)
Vampire B strikes with Nightstick (prevent 3 damage)

Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?

2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?

3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?

Nightstick


Kerrie


Rulebook

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2022 07:14 #105951 by Bloodartist
Yep, I did point out in discord that "defensive strike" is not defined in the rulebook.

In this case, I suspect the answer is "yes" even though the rulebook doesn't support this.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2022 10:46 - 13 Aug 2022 10:48 #105953 by KoRneeshon

1) Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?

Strikes need to be described as ranged (or have R mark after damage) to work at long range - or be defensive ones. I think Nightsick "prevent" strike is not a defensive one, see below.

2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?

No. Defensive strike protects minion from all effects of the opposing minion's strike. Nightstick "prevent" strike doesn't protect for example from blood steal strike, "send to torpor" strikes etc.

3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?

None in my opinion. Dodges and combat ends are the only strikes known to me that protect the minion using them from all effects of opposing minion's strike.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2022 10:48 by KoRneeshon.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2022 11:06 #105954 by inm8
I get your thought process/red thread but I think you are making assumptions of what “defensive” incorporates and that it has to be an effect that protects the minion from the opposing minions strike which is questionable if S:CE does.
Dodge is to my knowledge the only effect that is explicitly defined as “protecting” the minion from the opposing minions strike.
By general definition of “offensive” and “defensive” one could easily come to the conclusion that strike effects done to the opponent are “offensive” and effects that aren’t done to the opponent are “defensive”…this could also be completely wrong in regards to vtes which by lack of definition with regards to the game has us discussing the question and asking for rulings/clarifications.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Aug 2022 17:03 #105956 by Lech
Combat Ends is not defensive by this definition. It don't pretect from other sce like catatonic fear.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Aug 2022 07:39 - 14 Aug 2022 07:40 #105960 by lip
Interesting. I don't see why preventing damage wouldn't work at long range: you're protecting yourself, range does not matter, basically, since you're not doing anything to the opponent: I think this qualifies as a defensive strike per the rulebook. I also see that one could argue Kerrie does not count as a melee weapon when used at range, but I would say it's a dubious argument: after all "melee weapon" is right there in the card text.

In absence of ruling, I would have ruled that Nightstick can be used to prevent Kerrie's damage.
Last edit: 14 Aug 2022 07:40 by lip.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.060 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum