file Nightstick and defensive strikes

14 Aug 2022 09:47 - 14 Aug 2022 09:47 #105963 by Ankha

Discussion from the discord prompted the following questions:

1) Combat is at long range
Vampire A (of strength 1) strikes with Kerrie (R strength damage)
Vampire B strikes with Nightstick (prevent 3 damage)

Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?

No. Nightstick's strike is not effective at long range.

2) Does "Strike: prevent X damage" qualify as a "defensive strike" as S:D and S:CE? and therefore per the rules is useable at any range?

No. You can strike this term from the rulebook,

3) What other strikes qualify as "defensive strikes" other than S.D and S.CE?

Moot.

Resolve Strike:
Most strikes are effective only at close range, unless the strike is identified as ranged, does “R” damage, or is a defensive strike such as dodge or combat ends.


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Last edit: 14 Aug 2022 09:47 by Ankha.
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15 Aug 2022 09:03 #105976 by Lönkka

Discussion from the discord prompted the following questions:

1) Combat is at long range
Vampire A (of strength 1) strikes with Kerrie (R strength damage)
Vampire B strikes with Nightstick (prevent 3 damage)

Is the effect of Nightstick useable at long range against a ranged Kerrie strike and therefore vampire B doesn´t take any damage?

No. Nightstick's strike is not effective at long range.


Whoa! :o

It is totally obvious that Nightstick's "Strike: strength+1 damage" is only usable at close range, but that the "strike: prevent 3 damage to this striking minion from the opposing minion's next hand or melee weapon strike this round" would only be usable at short range sure seems odd (vs Kerrie's, a melee weapon, strike "Alternatively, inflict strength ranged damage as a strike").

I would understand that a damaging effect would require the strike to be R in order to be effective at Long Range, but a defensive effect is is rather counterintuitive (something this game seems to unfortunately excel in... :/ )


Granted this is something you do not run across all that often as neither tends to see much use! :D

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16 Aug 2022 07:20 - 16 Aug 2022 07:22 #105991 by Bloodartist
If this is a new direction with strike cards (special effects only effective at short range by default), I wonder if its necessary to alter Oubliette's cardtext?

Name: Oubliette
[SW:U/PL, Third:U, HttB:PKia3, SP:PoS3, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obtenebration
[obt] Strike: combat ends.
[OBT] As above, and the opposing minion burns 1 blood or life after combat ends (even at long range).
Artist: Patrick Lambert

Oubliettes blood burning effect is effective at long range, but the text saying so is in brackets which is problematic. Text in brackets is interpreted as reminder text these days - as in not part of the actual card text. Reminder text could theoretically be removed without it affecting the card function.

So the current oubliette card text assumes that special effects are effective at long range without explicitly saying so.

I suggest changing this into something without brackets such as:
"As above, and the opposing minion burns 1 blood or life after combat ends at short or long range."

ps. Oubliette even saw reprint in the lasombra precon, so it is within the purview of the policy "no cardtext changes unless the card sees reprint" even.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
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Last edit: 16 Aug 2022 07:22 by Bloodartist.

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16 Aug 2022 07:22 - 16 Aug 2022 07:23 #105992 by Ankha

If this is a new direction with strike cards (special effects only effective at short range by default), I wonder if its necessary to alter Oubliette's cardtext?

No. And it's not a new direction.

Oubliettes blood burning effect is effective at long range, but the text saying so is in brackets which is problematic. Text in brackets is interpreted as reminder text these days - as in not part of the actual card text. So it could be removed without it affecting the card function.
So the current oubliette card text assumes that special effects are effective at long range without explicitly saying so.

Correct. Combat ends are effective at long range (rulebook).

I suggest changing this into something without brackets such as:
"As above, and the opposing minion burns 1 blood or life after combat ends at short or long range."

No need for that, it's in the rulebook.

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 16 Aug 2022 07:23 by Ankha.

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16 Aug 2022 07:34 #105994 by Bloodartist

No. And it's not a new direction.

I thought it a new direction, since you are changing rulebook text. You DO need to remove the "defensive strike" text from the actual rulebook thats up on the black chantry site, yes?

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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