Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
01 Apr 2024 00:36 #111047
by Charles_Bronson
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition was created by Charles_Bronson
A lasombra is bleeding, then a prince burns 1 blood and untaps and attempts to block with second tradition: domain.
The lasombra then plays tenebrous form.
Is the filthy camarilla prince obliged to burn the blood due to second tradition, that say's he "attempts to block"? Or he can back out and give up the block attempt?
thanks!
Name: Tenebrous Form
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obtenebration
[obt] +1 stealth.
[OBT] As above, and minions without Obtenebration [obt] must burn 1 blood to attempt to block (allies cannot burn blood).
Name: Second Tradition: Domain
Cardtype: Reaction
Requires a prince or justicar.
+2 intercept. Also usable by a locked prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn 1 blood to unlock and attempt to block with +2 intercept.
The lasombra then plays tenebrous form.
Is the filthy camarilla prince obliged to burn the blood due to second tradition, that say's he "attempts to block"? Or he can back out and give up the block attempt?
thanks!
Name: Tenebrous Form
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obtenebration
[obt] +1 stealth.
[OBT] As above, and minions without Obtenebration [obt] must burn 1 blood to attempt to block (allies cannot burn blood).
Name: Second Tradition: Domain
Cardtype: Reaction
Requires a prince or justicar.
+2 intercept. Also usable by a locked prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn 1 blood to unlock and attempt to block with +2 intercept.
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
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01 Apr 2024 07:52 #111049
by acbishop
Replied by acbishop on topic Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
Controller of the Prince can choose to burn the blood and continue attempting to block or decline to block and not paying for the blood required by tenebrous form
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01 Apr 2024 10:05 - 01 Apr 2024 10:09 #111050
by Ankha
In that order, the Prince was attempting to block when you played Tenebrous Form. Then, the Prince "must burn 1 blood to attempt to block". However, he can choose not to block anymore instead.
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/1khXmKPU0ws/m/Je_X4gvv72kJ
Note that if you had played Tenebrous Form before the Second Tradition (for instance, you bleed, someone attempts to block, you play Tenebrous Form), then a locked Prince would have to pay 1 blood for the Second Tradition AND burn 1 blood if they wanted to play that card, as Second Tradition forces you to attempt to block when you play it.
Replied by Ankha on topic Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
A lasombra is bleeding, then a prince burns 1 blood and untaps and attempts to block with second tradition: domain.
The lasombra then plays tenebrous form.
Is the filthy camarilla prince obliged to burn the blood due to second tradition, that say's he "attempts to block"? Or he can back out and give up the block attempt?
In that order, the Prince was attempting to block when you played Tenebrous Form. Then, the Prince "must burn 1 blood to attempt to block". However, he can choose not to block anymore instead.
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/1khXmKPU0ws/m/Je_X4gvv72kJ
Note that if you had played Tenebrous Form before the Second Tradition (for instance, you bleed, someone attempts to block, you play Tenebrous Form), then a locked Prince would have to pay 1 blood for the Second Tradition AND burn 1 blood if they wanted to play that card, as Second Tradition forces you to attempt to block when you play it.
Last edit: 01 Apr 2024 10:09 by Ankha.
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01 Apr 2024 11:11 - 01 Apr 2024 11:16 #111052
by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
This ruling seems wrong to me, as far as I’m aware an attempt to block cannot just simply be aborted …once started it either succeeds or fails
Furthermore the attempt to block has already been started in the given scenario which makes no sense that it has to be paid for retroactively… if I’m not wrong one doesn’t need to “continuously” attempt to block once the attempt has been announced…would be illogical as it is a impulse resetting effect and would mean the attempting to block minion cannot do anything but announce an attempt to block every time they get the impulse.
“Attempt to block” as a reaction effect is not the same as “attempting to block” as an ongoing state… but I could be wrong
Furthermore the attempt to block has already been started in the given scenario which makes no sense that it has to be paid for retroactively… if I’m not wrong one doesn’t need to “continuously” attempt to block once the attempt has been announced…would be illogical as it is a impulse resetting effect and would mean the attempting to block minion cannot do anything but announce an attempt to block every time they get the impulse.
“Attempt to block” as a reaction effect is not the same as “attempting to block” as an ongoing state… but I could be wrong
Last edit: 01 Apr 2024 11:16 by inm8.
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01 Apr 2024 11:31 #111053
by acbishop
Well the Second Tradition forces the vampire to attempt to block once you play the card, so if Tenebrous form was played before than the locked prince needs to burn 2 bloods (one for second tradition and on for tenebrous form) but if Second tradition is played before Tenebrous form the card only force you to attempt to block at the moment you play it, after that you continue blocking if you fulfil all the conditions (like having enough intercept) but if the conditions changes, and with the must burn blood clause of Tenebrous form they changed, the controller decides as the force of the second tradition has already been dealt with
Replied by acbishop on topic Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
This ruling seems wrong to me, as far as I’m aware an attempt to block cannot just simply be aborted …once started it either succeeds or fails
Furthermore the attempt to block has already been started in the given scenario which makes no sense that it has to be paid for retroactively… if I’m not wrong one doesn’t need to “continuously” attempt to block once the attempt has been announced…would be illogical as it is a impulse resetting effect and would mean the attempting to block minion cannot do anything but announce an attempt to block every time they get the impulse.
“Attempt to block” as a reaction effect is not the same as “attempting to block” as an ongoing state… but I could be wrong
Well the Second Tradition forces the vampire to attempt to block once you play the card, so if Tenebrous form was played before than the locked prince needs to burn 2 bloods (one for second tradition and on for tenebrous form) but if Second tradition is played before Tenebrous form the card only force you to attempt to block at the moment you play it, after that you continue blocking if you fulfil all the conditions (like having enough intercept) but if the conditions changes, and with the must burn blood clause of Tenebrous form they changed, the controller decides as the force of the second tradition has already been dealt with
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01 Apr 2024 18:47 #111061
by Charles_Bronson
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
Replied by Charles_Bronson on topic Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition
It's strange because the wording on the card does not say you have the option to back out. Only say that you MUST TO.
But attempts to block are optional, but you usually can't back out of a second tradition domain attempt to block. So why can you now back out?
But attempts to block are optional, but you usually can't back out of a second tradition domain attempt to block. So why can you now back out?
I am death.
Paul Kersey, Death Wish
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