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file On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

17 Nov 2011 21:02 #14810 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

Even with this proposed fix, it does nothing about the "Villein + Golconda" trick. Being able to double your pool expenditure (11 blood into pool from Villein, and then another 11 from Golconda) is exceedingly strong. Should we also ban Golconda while we're at it?

This is not a good trick because you end with no vampire, and have to re-influence out another one. Basically, you gain 11 pool but lose 2 or 3 turns, which is a bad trade-off IMHO.
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17 Nov 2011 21:19 #14813 by Izaak
Replied by Izaak on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

you gain 11 pool but lose 2 or 3 turns, which makes your prey win


Fixed :)
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17 Nov 2011 21:41 #14815 by echiang
Replied by echiang on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

Even with this proposed fix, it does nothing about the "Villein + Golconda" trick. Being able to double your pool expenditure (11 blood into pool from Villein, and then another 11 from Golconda) is exceedingly strong. Should we also ban Golconda while we're at it?

This is not a good trick because you end with no vampire, and have to re-influence out another one. Basically, you gain 11 pool but lose 2 or 3 turns, which is a bad trade-off IMHO.

Obviously, you wouldn't start doing this right from the start.

But after your deck is already running pretty smoothly (say you already have 2 or 3 IC members out, or you have Aksinya out for defense) then you can afford to do something like this for extra pool gain.
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17 Nov 2011 21:43 #14816 by echiang
Replied by echiang on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

you gain 11 pool but lose 2 or 3 turns, which makes your prey win


Fixed :)

Not necessarily.

Maybe this will make your prey appear to be the table threat.

Maybe you are first seed and will win if you time out. Or you've already gotten 1 or 2 VP's and would be happy with a time out. So getting insane amounts of pool (say 22) helps ensure that you will survive until the time limit is reached.
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18 Nov 2011 05:20 #14827 by brandonsantacruz
Replied by brandonsantacruz on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"
@Eric: There is no fix "needed" per se, but this slowing the game down with massive bloating does seem to take a lot of the thrill out of it. How do you propose to address that? Do you think that an idea will come up naturally? If Villein remains legal (especially if it is not errata'd) and there is no publisher, doesn't that necessitate reprints or proxies?
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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18 Nov 2011 06:13 #14828 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

Even with this proposed fix, it does nothing about the "Villein + Golconda" trick. Being able to double your pool expenditure (11 blood into pool from Villein, and then another 11 from Golconda) is exceedingly strong. Should we also ban Golconda while we're at it?

This is not a good trick because you end with no vampire, and have to re-influence out another one. Basically, you gain 11 pool but lose 2 or 3 turns, which is a bad trade-off IMHO.

Obviously, you wouldn't start doing this right from the start.

But after your deck is already running pretty smoothly (say you already have 2 or 3 IC members out, or you have Aksinya out for defense) then you can afford to do something like this for extra pool gain.

At that time, there are big chances that you have already played Villein earlier, that therefore you vampire isn't full and that you just play Golconda. Villein or Minion Tap would have been exactly the same in that case.
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