On Parity Shift 6. "problematic card".

We can see for example these 3 decks in the TWD in Spain, all tournements around 22 players, the first 2 decks are the same playing by the same player, mixing Camarilla and not Camarilla vampires and not playing Parity Shift, the last deck is the deck of the month in extrala website, playing Unexpected Coalition and winning with a Sabbat Vote deck, There are more examples of vote decks winning without Parity Shift, so it means that it isn't a card you must play for winning with a vote deck. I think this is a good reason for not touching Parity Shift, cause, there are lots of things for counter it (blocking, Delaying Tactics, not having vote lock, DI, etc...) with lot of requirements to be played.

thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011npbdvs

thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011tjavvs

thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011btdbs

Not exactly an argument, but mostly I'm PRO.

Parity Shift is, undeniably, a very strong card. And I don't especially have a problem with that. I'd rather see Parity Shift as the threshold for "You must be this powerful or less to ride the pirate ship V:TES."

Even with Parity Shift being as good as it is, my gut instinct is that well-played stealth-bleed is usually better overall.

Personally, my preference would be for other sects to get cards that are similarly good. Not necessarily votes, and not necessarily of the same sort, but when you play a Prince or Justicar-y vote-y deck, you really do have to think hard to justify not including a couple of Parity Shifts. I'd like to see a few other options pushing towards the edges of what's acceptable in the game.

Ankha wrote:

Because simply the crypt is not the same. It's hard to play Obtenebration when you're Camarilla. Cardinal don't contest their titles with other Cardinals as Justicar do. They play Private Audience. They play Fear of Mekhet.

Camarilla can play Closed Session, which is exactly the same as Private Audience. But free. And they can play Fear of Mekhet as well. And then also have Parity Shift. Contesting things is an issue, yes, but a random and seldom issue. There are certainly angles that the Sabbat (or whatever) clans can take advantage of to make vote decks worth trying out. But the Camarilla ones with Parity Shift are always going to be generally better and more successful. And when building a non Camarilla, Parity Shiftless vote deck, the builder (if he/she is being level headed) is going to have to justify why this deck is worth building instead of a similar Camarilla one with Parity Shift in it. And most of the time, the answer will be "Well, it probably should just be a Camarilla deck with Parity Shift in it..."

Yes. You *can* build and successfully play non Camarilla vote decks. People do it all the time. But they aren't doing it 'cause the non Camarilla vote decks are better than the Camarilla Vote decks. They are doing it for fun/grins/entertainment/whatever. And in pretty much every situation, they'd really just be better off playing a similar deck that was a Camarilla deck. Simply 'cause it could then also have Parity Shift.

Ankha wrote:

bakija wrote:

But the Camarilla ones with Parity Shift are always going to be generally better and more successful.

Without providing any factual evidence, it's not a very valid argument. "Anecdotal evidence. And experience" you said. I'll use the same to state that Sabbat vote have a very strong viability, even without Parity Shift-like cards.

How many Sabbat based vote decks are in the TWDA? How many with Parity Shift?