file Masters that should become trifles when PoD enters - your suggestions

04 May 2013 07:40 #48171 by ReverendRevolver

Rather than making existing cards trifke, how about making cards that makes it easier to put trophies (progeny is a problem), disciplines masters and archetypes into play? These cards has keywords that make them easy to target with rules or other cards.


Damn. If only we had a card that fetched trophies..... redlist rush would be almost playable. If you could readily summon up trophies (2-3would be dine, plus the one you get to fetch without it being in play) it would make an asston of xecks exist, and would make zayyat, Xavier, ezmerelda, and every 9 or 10 cap magaji into a viable combat deck workhorse. Almost making up for thier inability to go anarch without a carded action.
Zayyat is ok now, playable, jist not game winning(in all fairness, i still havent actually assembled any of the like 3 decks ive intended to use him in....) but if he could MotS for an ivory bow, freak drive, and rush a redlist minion with a couple trophies oit, you could stack up trophies revered, domain, and library on him, making him a card drawing, heavy bleed at 2 stealth with no cards needed, and omni blocking machine.

But im confusedxby your other two issues....

We had a card that fetched disciplinez. It was called liliths blessing, and they are working on returning that effect, ifnot that card, to the game.

We HAVE a card that doez that with archetypes. its called guide and mentor, and taxes you for for multilles of the same archetype, as it should, so that you cant get 4 monsters dunkimg 8 minions a turn or 5-6 malks bleedi.g with capitalists and bloating with vessels. Or really even anybody having their whole ready region filled with perfectionists....

I think having more toolup actions that are "trifle actions" like abbot, inferior dual form, and nocturn would be helpful.

Im not talkimg about already powerful cards like black metamorphisis, or preturnatural strength. Im not even talking about almost good cards like masochism, or solid ish cards like lomis gift. Im talking about things that cost blood and dont matter enough to waste an action on often. Shadow of the beast, ablative skin, chill of oblivion, permanancy, and to a lesser extent, ritual challenge, retain the quick blood, and possibly biotaum experiment. Se eral of those should grant immidiate or end of turn untap. That wouod help lots of weak spots....

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04 May 2013 14:38 #48177 by ICL

Rather than making existing cards trifke, how about making cards that makes it easier to put trophies (progeny is a problem), disciplines masters and archetypes into play? These cards has keywords that make them easy to target with rules or other cards.


I could have just as easily quoted someone else, but I find the fear of Trophy: Progeny to be perplexing.

Let's see, two tournament winning decks have had more than zero copies. One had three copies and had four other Trophy cards. The other deck was a deck archetype I played against multiple times - I happened to be one of the people who lent Ira some of the 29 copies he played in his deck.

But, let's assume that number of wins understates the power because few people bother to acquire the cards for the deck or build the deck. That deck has a lot of weaknesses. It's far more likely to go off against people who don't understand how it works than people who realize what is going on. And, even when it does "go off", it can still be ousted ... by an Abomination deck bleeding with Jake Washington and Tasha Morgan.

Not to say I am in favor of trifling up T:Progeny or any other Trophy. I find the Red List/Trophy mechanics to be inherently flawed and not to the benefit of the game. But, I wouldn't really care if they did get trifled.

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04 May 2013 15:05 - 04 May 2013 15:08 #48180 by jamesatzephyr

Rather than making existing cards trifke, how about making cards that makes it easier to put trophies (progeny is a problem), disciplines masters and archetypes into play? These cards has keywords that make them easy to target with rules or other cards.


I could have just as easily quoted someone else, but I find the fear of Trophy: Progeny to be perplexing.


I don't think the suggestion is a fear of it currently. Currently, you can reliably win 1 trophy per successful Red List dunk. If you use a master phase action to play more, you can get more.

If, on the other hand, you could go library-diving to get out Trophies in a manner that was much easier than currently, you could get out multiple Trophy: Progeny, with free blood. Assuming that there was an action to do it, for example, and it was cheaper than just playing your own copy of Third Tradition: Progeny (or equivalent), you could get out a lot of Progeny. This would be especially the case if - as suggested - the library-dive untapped you. e.g.
Cat Missing: Reward Offered
Action, +1 stealth, Requires a titled vampire
Choose a Trophy card by name. If this action is successful, search your library for a copy of that card and put it in play, and untap this acting vampire.

That sort of thing might let weenie breed get somewhat out of control.


There are, of course, ways of avoiding this. e.g.
Choose a Trophy card by name. You cannot choose a card if you already have a copy of that card in play which has not been moved to a vampire.

(It's at times like this you wish the rules defined a term like "awarded" or "unawarded".)
Choose a Trophy card by name. If you choose a card that you control a copy of which has not been moved to a vampire, the cost of this action increases by 1 pool.
Last edit: 04 May 2013 15:08 by jamesatzephyr.

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06 May 2013 14:41 #48261 by wesile
IMHO we should limit this thread to Master -> Master Trifle cards... the ones that already exist.

I believe that the investments should be trifled. Trophy's should be reviewed in a "Red List mechanics" and not in this thread.

There are some other master cards that could be playable by this method.

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