Compromise on Villein

Suoli wrote:

Wookie813 wrote:

But seriously, you don't need Villein or Minion Tap. Using your master phase for Pool recursion is a choice, not an obligation.

It's a choice between playing big caps and not playing big caps. I, for one, would like the former be a viable option for new players.

?????????!
Did I miss a rules revision? The capacity of vampires in your crypt does not require any particular card be used in your library.

You are adhering to a premise that one MUST recur pool via the master phase action if playing large capacity vampires. While this strategy is sensible and has been proven effective, it is not singular.

Also, can we quit pretending to be concerned for the well-being of this hypothetical 'new player'. That guy will have months and months to play and learn the fundamentals of the game before the most effective means of pool recursion become an issue, and by then will either be hooked or have given it up already.

Wookie813 wrote:

?????????!
Did I miss a rules revision? The capacity of vampires in your crypt does not require any particular card be used in your library.

You are adhering to a premise that one MUST recur pool via the master phase action if playing large capacity vampires. While this strategy is sensible and has been proven effective, it is not singular.

I'm sure that some kind of a large cap deck without master phase pool recursion could be played but I do think that it would usually be clearly inferior and there wouldn't be any reason to do so, other than lack of cards. It would be for all purposes too bad to be playable. If there are exceptions to that then I don't believe that those exceptions are numerous enough to be an argument against the necessity of Villeins. If there's one or two specialized decks, like Una, that can do without pool recursion then that does not really have a huge effect when compared to the larger pool of decks that can't.

Also, can we quit pretending to be concerned for the well-being of this hypothetical 'new player'. That guy will have months and months to play and learn the fundamentals of the game before the most effective means of pool recursion become an issue, and by then will either be hooked or have given it up already.

People do quit games after being initially hooked and I do believe lacking Villeins could be a reason for someone to quit. I used to play a lot of casual MTG. The cost of making new decks or moving in to the tournament scene was too high so I stopped.

elotar wrote:

Kushiel wrote:

If new players are playing competitively, with older players, they can borrow Villeins from those players or simply play decks that don't require Villein.

It may be true 4 your playgroop, but here there are just not enougth villeins.

I suggested to you in Newsgroup where you guys could still get Heirs Starters, but since you keep insisting that Villeins aren't available I've come to conclusion that you guys just don't want to spend any money on cards. Hence all the relentless talk about proxying, banning etc

Suoli wrote:

People do quit games after being initially hooked and I do believe lacking Villeins could be a reason for someone to quit.

Has anyone actually so far encountered a situation where a player, new or old, has actually quit the game bacause of the availability of Villein (or any other card for that matter)?


Like Wookie813 I don't buy this "For heavens sake, think of the neonates!" -attitude.

Not only that, but how can the card be simultaneously so powerful and widespread to affect everyone that might play big caps and minion taps, and yet so incredibly rare as to be unobtainable?

BeAst wrote:

Not only that, but how can the card be simultaneously so powerful and widespread to affect everyone that might play big caps and minion taps, and yet so incredibly rare as to be unobtainable?

Unfortunately BeAst, Suoli doesn't accept that Minion Tap has the same effect of Villeins on the ability to play big cap vampires. Presumably even in the absence of Villeins making it slightly less pool efficient.

Suoli wrote:

Big caps became much more playable after Villein. I see that as a positive.

Suoli wrote:

I don't agree that Minion Tap does exactly the same thing as Villein. The trifleness matters.