Crypt card redesign

BenPeal wrote:

In addition to the other problems I'm mentioned with the idea for a second text box, here's another: You're pre-filling the text space with the clan name, which reduces the avaialble space. From a card design perspective, we have less space to work with, especially with clan names like "Follower of Set" and "Daughter of Cacophony". I have a similar frustration with "Cold Iron Vulnerability" and "She cannot play cards that require Celerity ." They eat up text space and restrict the abilty to be creative with specials.

As I think about this issue more, I'm reminded of a change the Rules Team made with crypt templating: Eliminating the word "Advanced" from Advanced crypt cards and only using the Advanced icon (). Crypt text space is already at a premium, and it's especially problematic for Advanced crypt cards with merged text. Eliminating the word "Advanced" and only using the icon saves a small chunk of valuable space.

Looking at Advanced vamps from Ke's current layout, we have Kemintiri:

amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/kemintiriadv.jpg

Again, drop the black box. Move the disciplines down and put the Advanced icon in its usual spot.

Good examples of how eliminating the black box can provide room to increase the font size for readibility:

amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/alfredbenezriadv.jpg
amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/appoloniusadv.jpg
amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/brunhildeadv.jpg
amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/feroxtherocklordadv.jpg

(note: It appears that titles in merged text are not bolded.)
(note: oooo...I like that Gangrel clan border.)

Hmmm...Cesewayo presents a crowding issue:

amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/cesewayoadv.jpg

In Cesewayo's case, his text might need to be a point smaller to allow for the Advanced icon, even with the black box removed.

Ooof...the worst case appears to be Helena:

amaranth.vtes.co.nz/cardimages/helenaadv.jpg

That's a really tight squeeze. If the black box is removed, the Advanced icon should still fit. However, if we're looking for a fixed text box size (which I really want), then the text box either is set to that size or we just treat Helena Adv. as a one-off special case. It's the result of extending the text box into the attribute bar.

Speaking of which, has anyone tested this layout using sleeves with holograms in the bottom left corner? The attribute bar template was adjusted after Camarilla Edition such that the disciplines were raised a bit higher to prevent holograms on sleeves from covering up disciplines. I'm curious as to whether there are similar issues with covering up text.

What if we use the opportunity of new layout to make a profound reform of how Advanced and Merged work ?

What if Advanced card had two side ? (Like Character cards in Rage.)

One side would have the Advanced vampire without any merged effect. (With the Advance trait and no icon)

The other side would be the Merged vampire. It would have this icon before the vampire's name in order to be easily noticeable.
As for the cardtext, clan, sect and disciplines, it would be a full recap of everything the Merged vampire should be.

BenPeal wrote:

666Raziel wrote:

Sorry if I'm hammering , but what I like about my proposition is that it works very nice with Ke's layout.

Traits goes in the black box (and we now have a good reason tu fully write the clan's name there).

In addition to the other problems I'm mentioned with the idea for a second text box, here's another: You're pre-filling the text space with the clan name, which reduces the avaialble space. From a card design perspective, we have less space to work with, especially with clan names like "Follower of Set" and "Daughter of Cacophony". I have a similar frustration with "Cold Iron Vulnerability" and "She cannot play cards that require Celerity ." They eat up text space and restrict the abilty to be creative with specials.

On top of it, the black box reduces the amount of text space available in the white box, regardless of how much text is used in the black box. The space is much more efficiently used with a single text box, and that allows us to use a larger font for improved readibility.

For example, look at the Bold Traits version of Ur-Shulgi:

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17269164/vtes/layout/text-urshulgi.jpg

There's effectively a blank bar on top of the white text box. Eliminate that, increase the white text box space to include the space occupied by the black bar, and increase the font size.

I think you are nitpicking.
So far any version of Ke's layout is still more readable than the original card. And that goes for recent cards (like Appolonius ADV) as well.
And by the look of it, it seems like you could make more Sonja Blue with this layout.

Besides, regarding Ur-Shulgi, if every traits were placed on the black box as I recommend (which is not the case in the "Separated traits" version), I think we would gain space.

666Raziel wrote:

I think you are nitpicking.

Trying to make the most of the limited design space available is not nitpicking.

So far any version of Ke's layout is still more readable than the original card. And that goes for recent cards (like Appolonius ADV) as well.
And by the look of it, it seems like you could make more Sonja Blue with this layout.

That doesn't mean that the space should be wasted all over again. Here's another way to look at it:

You create a text box for a crypt card. You can either:

- Allow the Design Team to use that text space to create cool specials.

or

- Prohibit the Design Team from using that text space to create cool specials.

Right now, you're advocating the latter.

Besides, regarding Ur-Shulgi, if every traits were placed on the black box as I recommend (which is not the case in the "Separated traits" version), I think we would gain space.

So pick one of the myriad vampires without traits and observe the wasted space.

It's nitpicking because you are willing to sacrifice clarity in order to gain few centimeters for potential abilities.

Nearly every cardgame I know "waisted" some space in order to make the keyword on their cards easily noticeable.
And so far this concept of "white text on black box" opposed to "black text on white box" looks way more "catchy" than any bold tricks I've seen.

Besides, if this layout constrain your creativity, here is another suggestion :
- remove the clan/creed icon from below the name
- pull the discipline/virtue up
- enlarge the text box
- place traits in the black box and abilities in the white box
- add the clan icon "as a watermark" (I hope WordReference was right about the meaning of this one ! ) in the white box, so this space is never empty, even when vampire don't have abilities

What do you think ?

666Raziel wrote:

It's nitpicking because you are willing to sacrifice clarity in order to gain few centimeters for potential abilities.

Clarity? How do you get extra clarity by putting the word "Advanced" - or any other similar trait - in white text on a black background, rather than black text on a white background? You still have to know what the word means, you still have to understand the implications of the term.

Would cards have greater clarity if titles were in the black box? I'm confused as to why "Tremere Justicar" isn't worthy of being in the black box, but Blood Cursed apparently is, and in one version of Ur Shulgi +1 bleed goes in there too, so +1 bleed - regularly going to be crucial information throughout the game - gets mixed in with Advanced and Blood Cursed, which most people would ignore.

Whatever it is that the black box offers, it doesn't appear to be clarity.