New set in 2012

I personally find the notion of a new set to be quite positive, i'm banking on the experience and competence of the vekn team to bring their years of wisdom into the game. If one is a skeptic, then let us wait for the 1st set to come out before you start criticizing people. Go VEKN!

Izaak wrote:

Of those ~30 active Dutch players I know 10 that absolutely hate the PDF cards and have zero intention to play with them and do not wish to play agaisnt them *solely* because they are fan-created PDF's.

That argument is nonsense. The cards of the previous sets were playtested by the same people who design the new cards now. The playtesters helped in designing new cards a lot. The process now is more or less the same. The only difference is that now Ben Peal is the leading person instead of LSJ. Is that a reason to stop playing? Does that mean the set has to be bad?
I'm sure that everybody in this forum would appreciate it very much to have *real* cards instead of a PDF. But IT DOESN'T WORK. We have been through this already often enough. If your playgroup/the dutch community really wants to play with old cards only for the next couple of years (what I strongly doubt, sorry, I'd be glad to hear of some other players from the Netherlands) that doesn't mean that we all have to. PDF is the only option at the moment so rather have that than nothing.

Let haters hate everything. Suffisent people will be happy to see that kind of initiative, let's let other people play as they want.

If they hate the PDFs because they can not more go to VEKN-sanctioned event, then somehow they admit that VEKN is not just a fan organisation ; other than that, this will not affect them.

That argument is nonsense.

And precisely this attitude is another reason why the "fuck it" mentality is there.

The way I look at it is this: change nothing, the game continues and slowly dies out eventually. Release fan sets and you split the playerbase into two not neccesarily equally sized groups and the game dies out a little bit faster.

I mean, ye sure VTES lived through the first torpor phase, but that was in a time there were like 300 cards, CCGs were hot and games were for nerds. I don't think we'll be here organizing ECs and NACs 5 years from now so why would you want to lose players just so all the stayers can play with 25 new crypt cards.

I'm sure that everybody in this forum would appreciate it very much to have *real* cards instead of a PDF.

I doubt it. There are enough players that want to play with freaking proxies in the name of leveling the playing field.

But IT DOESN'T WORK. We have been through this already often enough.

We don't know this. This whole legality issue has been blown way out of proportion. I'm perfectly allowed to have my shitty PDF cards printed on good paper and give them VTES backs. Plus, it's not like ANYONE will ever find out. I'm also perfectly allowed to have this done for every player I play with and just charge them whatever the copyshop charges and will in fact do exactly this in an attempt to keep people playing. Princes and NCs are perfectly allowed to run into a copyshop and have 500 of each card printed and then sell them to their local playgroups at cost.

Yes, PDF is more convenient but in this era of digital intellectual properties, I seriously doubt you're breaking more copyrights by actually printing the shit and shipping printed cards (at zero profit) than you do by putting PDFs online for everyone to download.

If they hate the PDFs because they can not more go to VEKN-sanctioned event, then somehow they admit that VEKN is not just a fan organisation ; other than that, this will not affect them.

If alienating players is your goal, then these kind of responses are exactly what you need. Keep 'em coming.

Izaak, I ask you to have your Dutch players voice their fears and reservations regarding the upcoming expansion here. Where it really matters. They may have arguments that others have not considered yet. Or they might get convinced that such an expansion will not be so bad at all. Who knows?