New set in 2012

Izaak wrote:

3) The VEKN IC is not some sort of holy circle of perfect people. They make mistakes too. Their two biggest ones being complete lack of communication and appointing invisible "old-school fans" as movers and shakers.

This is absolutely true. And for me I appreciate criticism.

Maybe it is a language issue but your posts often sound disrespectful. You give me the impression the dutch VtES-players give a s*** for those people who try to let the game live gaining nothing in return beside -respect-. It is just not adequate to assume they just do it to look important, will do mistakes anyway and will damage the game for sure. I'm glad to know there are guys who work on make VtES live longer. I know they have the experiences to do it well. Although you are right pointing out that they probably make mistakes they deserve a bit of trust for their first project.

I'm sure the ICs (if you want to call them like that) tried all possible solutions regarding the printing of cards. It is easy just to say "no they didn't" if nobody has a valid idea how that task could be done.

One other poster above mentioned the strain new expansions evoke in players. It's true, you hope there aren't too good cards, to bad new mechanisams and other things. I'm sure though that the upcoming set is the one that will be the most tested and discussed just because nobody wants to make a mistake. Why not just give it a try?

Maybe it is a language issue but your posts often sound disrespectful.

In this country we call it just being direct. Straight to the point without any pink ribbons wrapped around it. Anyone that knows me (and there should be quite a few all over europe by now) knows that I'm not really that much of an ass but I do hate talking around the issue for hours because it simply gets you nowhere.

Also, people don't like their shortcomings and mistakes being pointed out. I come from a culture where telling people, right in their face, they did a piss poor job (in those words) is commonplace and socially accepted.

If people find this "disrespectful" then that's unfortunate.

Yes and I have been trying to react to anything that sounded like constructive criticism with actions. There has been a lack of informations, I see that now and I am working on it. The same issue has come up in the NC forums and I reacted there a couple of weeks ago.

Yes I know this. I also know you want the best for the game and I appreciate that.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for trying to improve the communication to the players that are neither Prince or NC (like me), but actually do "maintain" a group of players and care as much, or maybe more, about VTES as anyone else.

Izaak wrote:

Brum:

1) You're confusing "insulting" with criticizing".

2) Don't try to sound clever when you don't have any facts backing it up. You try and dismiss my opinion and anecdotal evidence from my own play environment with "facts" that have zero basis.

3) The VEKN IC is not some sort of holy circle of perfect people. They make mistakes too. Their two biggest ones being complete lack of communication and appointing invisible "old-school fans" as movers and shakers.

If I woulnd't be here crusading and directly criticizing VEKN, but instead just nodding "yes" and "cool" like yourself, Johannes wouldn't have been posting updates and informing the people that post here of what's going on the past 2 days.

That finally happening is GOOD and if it actually keeps going I might be able to convince my local players that VEKN is actually good instead of just a bunch of fans trying to be important, as they are looked at right now. What I need is some ammunition to throw at my players to convince them VEKN is good. Smoke and mirror statements is not going to do it.

What you -and VEKN apparently as well- failed to realize is that the VAST majority of active players DO NOT read this forum. They aren't even registered here. They are pointed to VEKN.net (by me for example), see an annoying to read website in work unfriendly colors, with news updated 6 months ago (until yesterday). They will simply close their browser and think "whatever." This too has been pointed out SEVERAL times in the forums in the very first week of the website launching.

Point 1 is subjective. Points 2 and 3 are not true.
I will not go into "I made this and this happen". That is seeking the spotlight you accuse others of seeking.
I really don't care about the image you have of me. But to try to discredit my opinions by writing things that are not true kinda sucks.
I've been one of the most active voices in favor of proxies, for instance. That goes way against the status quo in VEKN. I could give you other examples, but that's rather beyond the point of this thread.
Yes, there are facts and study cases in the "fan-based" releases of cards for CCG's and how they impact the perpectualization of the game.
You said you were in Paris in the NC meeting. Did you hear David Tatu talk about the Star Trek CCG community, their organization, how they dealt with the IP and Oscar's points of how VEKN could wrap up legal issues with CCP?
All these are important facts.

Yes, I believe (as I stated in that same meeting), that the best people possible are working here, for what I know, apart from other two guys (Extrala and theLasombra) who are also doing nice work for the community, both here and in their respective projects.

To say that the VEKN "appoints invisible "old-school fans" as movers and shakers." is so... out of touch with reality that I'm having difficulty writing about it.
They are the same people as ever (apart from Scott). So, once again, IF people don't like it, why did they like it before?

Now you CAN challenge these people. You can know what they do and why.
Before you couldn't, or it was allot harder.

I tried to investigate what was going on other CCG's. Magic, Game of Thrones (now a LCG), Start Trek, both Star Wars, etc.
I think that VEKN is doing a good job under it's conditions and is thinking long term to keep us here and playing. Sue me.

BTW, I think the lack of communication point you made was a good one, although probably not in the best terms.
That lack of info release could be mitigated with the participation of the NCs and Princes (like they should).
This whole discussion is giving me the idea some NCs are clueless to how things work, some Princes don't care and many players don't contact their Princes or don't come here.
And since this page is MUCH better that the old WW one (if you wish I can put Scientific reasons for this statement in the right thread), maybe they didn't go there either.
I'm very thankful to you if you endeavor to bring your fellow players to this forum. The more people here, the better.
And maybe they can see (and interact) with VEKN officials and see what schemes they are up to. And help too.

Izaak wrote:

Maybe it is a language issue but your posts often sound disrespectful.

In this country we call it just being direct. Straight to the point without any pink ribbons wrapped around it. Anyone that knows me (and there should be quite a few all over europe by now) knows that I'm not really that much of an ass but I do hate talking around the issue for hours because it simply gets you nowhere.

Also, people don't like their shortcomings and mistakes being pointed out. I come from a culture where telling people, right in their face, they did a piss poor job (in those words) is commonplace and socially accepted.

If people find this "disrespectful" then that's unfortunate.

This is an international forum. Not everybody shares your social norms. Nobody's expecting you to act politely but the least you can do is not be impolite. If everybody just blurted out the first thing they thought I think you'd find the escalating flame wars more obstructive to discussion than the few seconds it takes to express yourself in a civil manner. Don't think of this as a restriction or a rule but more as a way to make people want to listen to you and seriously and unbiasedly consider what you have to say.