New set in 2012

johannes wrote:

That is what the V:EKN does, actually. Every NC should repost what he deems important from here to his local forum. Every prince should be here and keep track and report back to his local playerbase. Not all of them do, but most. I have always assumed that this is a good enough way to distribute information to as many players as possible.

Again, you are in denial. I dont know who our NC is. The national forum I knew of was always dead when I was a prince. There are no active princes in bc right now. VEKN has 0 visibility whatsoever from what I can see, but for the 1 player besides myself that alerted me to this 'new set'.

If we adopt your position that all we do on this website is futile

*sigh* strawman, come on now. Remember this is in response to your statement that a set posted on the vekn websight is suitable visibility.

Opinions may differ on how to do that, but angry ranting is not helping anybody. Constructive suggestions are, and they are certainly not falling on deaf ears.

I suggest you reread my very lengthy post on why this printed pdf tournament official set is bad then. Or my post on actually printing cards, or the one on how anyone thinks a print pdf is not in violation of copyright laws anyways....please by all means comment on those.

Talonz: You don't have a NC.
Do you wanna be a Prince? Do you want to contact the Canadian Princes and choose a NC?
Although I don't agree with anything you said here, I think you show interest and passion for the game.
Maybe, in your area, it's really up to you. Create a mailing list or a blog.
Gather your players and talk with them.

What communication means did you have before to get news about VtES?
White Wolf page and forum? This one is much better.
How did you get publicity of VtES?
Now anyone can get in touch with everyone at VEKN. You're concerned with Marketing? You don't see your concerns addressed by this thread? You can contact the Marketing Director. He's not some executive in an office that ignores you. That was before.
Same thing for every aspect of the game.

About the worries that the expansion will suck because it is fan-based:
If you started playing during the White Wolf era, besides card ideas and rulings, EVERYTHING ELSE that was relevant was fan based work.
By pretty much the same fans that are in charge now.
Very few people changed.

So, you have the same thing, with more availability, more transparency, more control and where your voice is more important.
How come that's bad?
How would you change it?

Izaak wrote:

How would they know if VEKN is "up for the job"???

They wouldn't. And that precisely the problem. They are like "ok, who on earth are VEKN and what the hell gives them the power to dilute the game with dumbass photocopies"?

Most of the same people as before. Only now their Princes and NC have more information and more say in things.
Too bad they choose to miss inform the Dutch players and leave the Netherlands out of the loop and out of the discussion.
Tell your worried players the only real change in personal was LSJ for Floppy.
Oh and tell them too that bad quality photocopies will be illegal, although I have no knowledge about the "dumbass" technology.
Is it a Phillips invention?

The game will not be deluded by the new set. It will generate interest and the cards will be free and open to all.
It is necessary to be in .pdf / html format.
Besides the physical format, everything is like before for you guys, since you very clearly had no idea how things happened before.

I think that something is amiss here, because you guys have good players that travel to foreign countries to play and you also receive foreign players.
I don't buy that you guys don't know what was going on before and that now you are very surprised with VEKN and what we do.
You claimed to be in Paris for the EC - how come you left with such an odd knowledge of how things work?

talonz wrote:

I suggest you reread my very lengthy post on why this printed pdf tournament official set is bad then. Or my post on actually printing cards, or the one on how anyone thinks a print pdf is not in violation of copyright laws anyways....please by all means comment on those.

Sorry for being a smart ass, but may I the suggest you dig out the trizillions threads already been on the topic, explaining what we can and cant do?

That you take a v:ekn based set and just throw it around as a "fan produced set" kinda shows your view on vekn, or missing what vekn is. It have always, even in WW times (but I would agree that it was muddy at that point) decided what was legal in tournements and what wasent. Im also kinda offended that you take your nation and your views and throw them around as thats the way it is everywhere.

And as Iv stated once before, and gladly do it again. NO ONE is forcing you to play by vekn rules. Thats only if your interested in vekn tournement (which you seems like you arent, since you dont even seems to care about what vekn is).

/J

Izaak wrote:

As you may be aware I was in Warsaw a month ago playing proper VTES at the EC and the *majority* of the people I spoke to about the PDF set were skeptical at best.

I must've been talking with aa different set of people there, but my feel to this was absoluteöy opposite.

When at Finnish ECQ (Ropecon, 90 plrs) I announced that VEKN was in the progress of doing an expansion, which was most likely going to be published as PDF, I got the feeling that players were mostly really pleased as well as happy that the game wasn't going the way of dodo.


Organizationwise I think we are currently in better position than ever.
As official support/contact is lost from WW/CCP we are forced to do everything ourselves. This means we are in even more in control than previously. With vekn.net and especially this forum the information flow is better than ever. I'm optimistic about the game and its future!

talonz wrote:

Haze wrote:

wasn't LSJ pretty much a fan who was brought on board to design for White Wolf?

The difference is just that...he was offically brought on by the company producing it.

LSJ was not appointed by anyone. He took it upon him to archive rulings and answering questions. He was recognised by players as kind of an authority regarding rules. The VEKN prosed him to WW as they took over from WotC to be lead designer and rules representative. At that point, WW carefully listened to the VEKN as they represented the players.

talonz wrote:

Here we have effectively a bunch of fans getting together and saying 'lets make new cards' which any hack in their basement can do, and then foist them off (electronically!) on the tournament community via their association with the vekn. Unliscended, unprinted, not widely available to the gamestore public, forcing people to play with fully sleeved decks, etc.

Apologies to those involved, but this is utter crap.

I dont want cheapass pdf cards polluting my game.

When I first read your posting I was wondering what kind of drugs you are on. Maybe you just had a bad day, that's all, and you are in fact a very nice person.

First off, I find it amazing that you didn't know that the VEKN is now in charge of VTES. This has been so for the last 16 months or so.
This central website was created to have a central place to cater to the players, with room for announcements, a forum to discuss and links and downloadable stuff. The start of this website was announced on all the "major" forums out there (the NG, WW forum, BGG and others).

We have an Inner Circle of the VEKN who are doing a good job, and a chairman who is very competent and cares for this game, as has been shown in the past by the tremendous support "Walch&Nusser" gave to the community.

Other out-of-print games also have "fan-based" sets, so I guess it was a logical decision to go this route when all other avenues were barred. What works for other games can not be too bad for us, can it?

You are insulting a lot of players who are devoting a lot of time and effort into making things run. I find this quite rude. If you and your players cannot be bothered to visit "the" central resource for VTES (now that the game is no longer in print) and check what's going on and giving opinion, it is clearly not the fault of the VEKN or the players that do voluntarily work for it.

And again, you didn't even bother to read the threads wherein was discussed that any other form of publishing is not possible at all. By not making profit in any way, the companies are unlikely to sue the VEKN.

In the past, LSJ has been designing the sets (mostly) on his own. Now there is a team. I don't see that as a drawback. A team is able to see more different approaches to weaknesses and problems.

I hate being the one to tell you this: most likely you are being the jerk here.
If you want to contribute to the game and the community, stop being so negative. If you have constructive criticism and you present it in a civil manner, others will listen. Heck, Johannes already took some of the points in this thread and acted upon them.

Btw, if there is no NC in Canada, and you seemingly care a lot about the game, step up and apply for the job. There is nothing stopping you and you can present your ideas in a much better way, and at the same time you can inform your players much more accurately what is going on, and tell them to visit this website.

Hope to have you on board soon. B)