New set in 2012

johannes wrote:

Well the point of Peter is that he PREFERS playing without sleeves for other reasons than the cost. I get this point but I feel that it doesn't really matter in the greather scheme of things.

Heh, that's what I get for posting under influence.

johannes wrote:

How many % is a lot? On the EC with roughly 200 player I have seen maximum 10 people w/o sleeves. 5% is not "a lot".

I suspect that it is a continental/cultural issue; in the US, plenty of people don't play sleeved decks. I'd conservatively guess that, like, half the people playing VTES that I run into don't use sleeved decks. Of my consistent playgroup of around 10 people, not a single person uses sleeves on all their decks. Most people don't use sleeves on any of their decks. One person regularly sleeves decks. When going to big, regional events, I'd say about half the people playing use sleeved decks.

Also note that the new cards will not be stuff that can/must be used in every deck. Most of them will be vampires, I guess sleeving your crypt is a non-issue, and the rest will be specific.

Yeah, to be fair, conversely, most people around here *do* sleeve their crypts; the difference between Jyhad and VTES backed crypt cards is a lot easier to pick out, and sleeving 12 cards (as opposed to 90) seems much more reasonable and less inconvenient. And being able to instantly pick out your crypt from your library is a definite advantage to doing this.

So maybe once in a while you will have to sleeve a deck which does not strike me as a very tough penalty for having new cards. Or don't play them, there are 3500 other cards that will make plenty of good decks. I think the sleeve issue is being overdramatized a lot. It is a non-issue to me.

Again, it is an inconvenience to people who don't like to sleeve their decks. I don't think it is the end of the world or anything. And, again, is probably the best we can do. But still, isn't nothing.

bakija wrote:

Joscha wrote:

If you come to my tournaments I'll lend you a pack of sleeves if you can't afford them.

But being dismissive of people who point out that this isn't an optimal plan with crap like this is just insulting to everyone involved.

The poster stated he is on a disadvantage when not using sleeves because everybody can tell he doesn't use the new cards. I think if you are really bothered by this than just use sleeves. Or live with that minor disadvantage, if it really is one.
Maybe that was a bit harsh. But I use sleeves for eons now and have no issues with shuffling, keeping my deck on the playing surface without toppling it over and with sticky cards. Maybe that's why I can't understand that concerns.

Joscha wrote:

Maybe that was a bit harsh. But I use sleeves for eons now and have no issues with shuffling, keeping my deck on the playing surface without toppling it over and with sticky cards. Maybe that's why I can't understand that concerns.

And that's you. Lots of folks don't use sleeves. And I can certainly understand someone thinking that this is a sub-optimal solution, rather than figuring out a way to get cards actually printed. Again, I don't think this is the end of the world. Or even actually worth worrying about that much (as it is doing the best that we can do). But the issue with using sleeves is simply not one of cost. And dismissing it as such is ridiculous.

bakija wrote:

Joscha wrote:

Maybe that was a bit harsh. But I use sleeves for eons now and have no issues with shuffling, keeping my deck on the playing surface without toppling it over and with sticky cards. Maybe that's why I can't understand that concerns.

But the issue with using sleeves is simply not one of cost. And dismissing it as such is ridiculous.

I thought it over and now know what annoyed me. It seems that there are always people complaining about something unfair or disadvantegous to them. And when you give them a solution, they tell you, that they don't want that solution and what is bad about it.
Often enough it is because some cards are too good or too bad. And if you give them hints about how to alter their decks to counter the evil card they yell "no, that makes my deck unfocused and I cannot give away space for those countercards". This short discussion reminded me of that experience. The poster stated he doesn't like it if others know he does not use the new expansion. People gave the hint using sleeves solves the problem. He said no, he doesn't like that solution.

Just live with the disadvantage (if it really is one)/problem if you don't like the (simple) solution.