question-circle Pentex Subversion Poll #2 and Discussion

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Poll: Possible fixes for Pentex Subversion

Total number of voters: 0
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24 Jun 2012 09:18 #32450 by Squidalot
You can't change it as you'd have to ban Una first.

The reason you need PS is due to overly powerful star vampire decks and Una is a great example of that.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Pendargon

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24 Jun 2012 09:37 #32451 by Shockwave
I'm agreed with Hugh. There's nothing wrong with PS, because it forces so called 'Star' decks to have to deal with it. If PS didn't exist as is, you could hone the (to use the example) Una deck to the point it'd become obscene.

The very existence of PS makes that deck have to diversify a little to counter it, and that's a good thing for the game. If your deck is foiled completely by PS, the issue isn't with PS, it's with your deck.

:AUS: :FOR: :VAL: Here we go again....
Dave Knowles (Advanced)
Sabbat Bishop of Manchester

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24 Jun 2012 09:58 #32455 by Ohlmann

Squidalot wrote: You can't change it as you'd have to ban Una first.

The reason you need PS is due to overly powerful star vampire decks and Una is a great example of that.


I agree, and some other vampires, while less overpowered, may cross the border if it wasn't for Pentex. Eze is a great example.

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24 Jun 2012 13:35 - 24 Jun 2012 13:39 #32461 by Jeff Kuta
What if Pentex were only playable on vampires which were not at full blood equal to their capacity? This way, a freshly influenced vampire could act a few times and expend their blood. But, as soon as they spent it for any reason, they could be stopped. This would at least allow Methuselahs to try and play their game a little bit in the early going. It really sucks spending 3 turns bringing out a 9+ capacity vampire and never allowing them to act or block the entire game, which can often mean you never get to act or block with *any* minion the entire game.

Alternately, Pentex could be prohibited from being placed on vampires which just entered play since "your last turn." This would have a similar effect and give 1 turn in which the controlling Methuselah's will over their minion cannot be subverted.

When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
:CEL::DOM::OBF::POT::QUI:
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Last edit: 24 Jun 2012 13:39 by Jeff Kuta.

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24 Jun 2012 14:20 #32463 by AaronC
Voted: Minion can act to remove Pentex.

I played a star-vampire deck at the NAC, and Pentex killed me in my second and third games. In both of those games, my prey was ousted and I had a tooled up combat-y Cassandra, Magus Prime. My second prey in both cases was playing allies. They played Pentex on Cassandra, and my weenie backup couldn't fight through the allies. I was then allowed to be ousted by my predator.

If Cassandra had been allowed an action to remove the Pentex, my preys in both games would have started losing allies, and especially in my second game against Jay Kristoff and Matt Strehlow, I would have an excellent chance of winning the game and making it to the finals (I made 3.5 VPs total in the tournament and if Cassandra hadn't been Pentexed in my second game, I *probably* would have earned a GW and 3 more VPs).

Yes, yes, I know - How many Pentexes was I playing? One. In my third game I used it to remove Adam Hulse's Smiling Jack. I find it useful for lunging or removing a blocker for a key (d) action, but I don't think I need a second for the deck itself. Now I have to play with two, and the first one is dead weight in my hand waiting for Cassandra to get Pentexed.

I have also abused Pentex in two recent tournaments in which I played it against my opponent's first vampire, and other people didn't want to remove them because of the danger of those players' decks. It's ridiculous that you can just remove a minion from play for two pool.

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24 Jun 2012 15:07 #32465 by Joscha

Squidalot wrote: You can't change it as you'd have to ban Una first.

The reason you need PS is due to overly powerful star vampire decks and Una is a great example of that.

I think Una is penalized bad enough by a Pentex Subversion even if she were allowed to remove it with an action. Granted you probably lose a minion to her while blocking that remove-action. But after the Freak Drive she can't do anything more because of the PS and so is still at a big disadvantage. Am I wrong?

Baron of Frankfurt

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