Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

I think Vtes takes lot of skill but biggest luck factor comes from seating. Major reason for this luck factor is that people still play too random decks in tournaments and random I mean not so optimized decks. Vtes tournament scene has been surprisingly varied compared to some other games. It is very hard to predict the metagame. Lately Vtes tournament scene has become bit more focused which is only good thing. It's not bad thing that there is only 5-10 strong archetypes which you see always. In that situation you know how to plan your deck and what you are playing against. In focused tournament skill also matters the most. Bad player will lose with girls or some netdeck anyway. Contesting crypt cards of course can be totally random thing that kills you (which is totally stupid rule but that is other topic)

It takes lot of skil in Vtes also to adapt new situaition you will face b/c random seating but sometimes that can be asking too much. Last tournament with 90 players I had 2 gw before third game. In that final game my predator was playing with random deck which shouldnt maybe belong to tournament. Not surprisingly neither of us won and I didnt go to finals.

But still I see the same names in top20 of almost every tournament so there must lot of skill in Vtes. Luck can just affect in what order those names are in that top20.

Xaddam wrote:

You cannot have a 90-card deck with Confusion of the Eye, Touch of Pain or Wider View if you're going up against Girls.

Ummm... Wider View? It's pretty much an autoinclude for me if my crypt isn't made up of just a single vampire or alternatively every vampire being unique. The ability to rearrange your uncontrolled region to your liking is absolutely huge and the cost of a trifle MPA that provides you with a pool is laughably low.

As for your definition of "versatile", I agree with Suoli that your definition is a really strange one that doesn't seem to have much in common with the usual nomenclature. Euro Brujah, to take a well-known archetype that tends to do somewhat well, is a very versatile deck type in that it features bleed, politics, rush combat, bounces and intercept.

Surreal wrote:

I think Vtes takes lot of skill but biggest luck factor comes from seating. Major reason for this luck factor is that people still play too random decks in tournaments and random I mean not so optimized decks.

Please define "optimized". It is not trivial in a multiplayer and incomplete information game. Surprise factor and low table hate are not to be neglected.

Vtes tournament scene has been surprisingly varied compared to some other games. It is very hard to predict the metagame. Lately Vtes tournament scene has become bit more focused which is only good thing. It's not bad thing that there is only 5-10 strong archetypes which you see always. In that situation you know how to plan your deck and what you are playing against.

Circular logic here: it is better to have few archetypes because it favors archetypes.

Besides, I think most players disagree with you: a varied tournament scene IS a desirable objective on its own because it makes tournaments more appealing: why should I get up at 6am and go to some far place to see the same decks that are all over the internet?

It takes lot of skil in Vtes also to adapt new situaition you will face b/c random seating but sometimes that can be asking too much. Last tournament with 90 players I had 2 gw before third game. In that final game my predator was playing with random deck which shouldnt maybe belong to tournament. Not surprisingly neither of us won and I didnt go to finals.

Now you just sound like a sore loser. Are you really blaming your predator for bringing a deck that shuts yours?

Non-existant user wrote:

Now you just sound like a sore loser. Are you really blaming your predator for bringing a deck that shuts yours?

I can't speak for Surreal but I've seen decks in tournies that I don't think belong in tournaments. The one taking the cake was a Beast and Theo rush deck whose oust mechanism was "bleed for one with two minions once all the other vampires are in torpor". So in effect it randomly destroyed someone's game (in essence giving a huge boost to it's grand prey) and never was even close to getting an oust.

How do you know he didn't just fail to draw his pool damage cards? And even if he didn't play them, that's beside the point. You can blame your predator for failing to turn prey-crushing into a vp, but you can only blame yourself when you get crushed by him.

Or to say it differently: you got crushed by a deck and it was a bad deck. You did not get crushed because it was a bad deck.

Non-existant user wrote:

Please define "optimized". It is not trivial in a multiplayer and incomplete information game. Surprise factor and low table hate are not to be neglected.

Optimized decks I mean are decks which are working archetypes or decks that can play well against most of them. Awesome if somebody can make up working deck for surprise factor also which work against many decks. I just see "bad decks" too often, like Harrod is just bad vampire whatever secret tech you try to include. Table hate is very hard thing to predict and I see it more thing of table talk and how you play the deck not what deck you play.

Non-existant user wrote:

Circular logic here: it is better to have few archetypes because it favors archetypes.

Besides, I think most players disagree with you: a varied tournament scene IS a desirable objective on its own because it makes tournaments more appealing: why should I get up at 6am and go to some far place to see the same decks that are all over the internet?

Well, that's my point and what I would like to see. I don't mind favouring archetypes at all. The question really is are there too few working tournament decks and do people like playing with or against those decks. I still see a lot of variety in Vtes tournaments and there are very many working decks so don't see that as problem. Many will answer that question differently. Althoght I see strong master cards as problem also (or extra master phase actions is the real problem) but lets not go to what this whole topic was originally about .

I don't even mind playing against same DEM bleed netdeck as my predator every game of tournament b/c my deck should manage that. I don't even find that boring at all. Of course I don't want to play that kind of Vtes everytime, I see Vtes in tournament and Vtes in friendly games almost different games, both which I enjoy a lot. Just not a fan of some random trick/funny deck messing table balance and upping the random meter in tournament. Those decks are ok for friendly games.

Non-existant user wrote:

Now you just sound like a sore loser. Are you really blaming your predator for bringing a deck that shuts yours?

You misunderstood me. It is totally cool to oust me and destroy my deck. But not so cool to destroy my deck but not manage to oust me even nearly.