Pre-Range

TheLich wrote:

This has very likely been brought up before, but reading the rules it would appear the following is true :

If Player A Plays a Maneuver and no Pre-Range Card, Player B cannot play a Pre-Range Card under the current rules.

Note: Effects that are played "before range is determined" must be played before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a maneuver at the start of this phase.

You're quoting only part of the rules:

Rulebook wrote:

6.4.1. Combat Sequence

Combat occurs in a series of one or more rounds. Each round of combat has three steps:
Determine Range. Use maneuvers to set the range to close or long.
Strike. Announce and resolve strikes.
Press. Use presses to continue into another round or to end combat.
As usual, the acting minion always gets first opportunity to use a card or effect before the opposing minion at every stage of combat.

Note the use of "stage of combat" (not "step") to indicate that the rule is valid each time someone wants to play a card at the same moment (= in the same "window")

A card that is played "in combat" (=combat card) "before range is determined" (=before the determine range step) can only be played at that stage. If the acting player doesn't have a card to play at that time, the impulse goes to the opposing player as indicated in the part I highlighted in white.

The number of windows created by the card text is too large to be put explicitely in the rulebook (even if "before range is determined" is pretty common). The rules describe the backbone of the combat sequence, cards can insert themselves at any point using their cardtext, and the order of play obeys the "acting first" rule.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

The number of windows created by the card text is too large to be put explicitely in the rulebook (even if "before range is determined" is pretty common). The rules describe the backbone of the combat sequence, cards can insert themselves at any point using their cardtext, and the order of play obeys the "acting first" rule.

Okay. But the quoted text still intimates that a player can skip the "before range is determined" stage by "deciding" to play a maneuver.

Uh, no. There's no such intimation.

"Effects that are played "before range is determined" must be played before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a maneuver at the start of this phase."

I'm player B. I want to play a card "before range is determined". It "MUST" be done before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a maneuver. It doesn't mean that the window can be skipped by the acting player.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

The number of windows created by the card text is too large to be put explicitely in the rulebook (even if "before range is determined" is pretty common). The rules describe the backbone of the combat sequence, cards can insert themselves at any point using their cardtext, and the order of play obeys the "acting first" rule.

Okay. But the quoted text still intimates that a player can skip the "before range is determined" stage by "deciding" to play a maneuver.

Uh, no. There's no such intimation.

"Effects that are played "before range is determined" must be played before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a maneuver at the start of this phase."

I'm player B. I want to play a card "before range is determined". It "MUST" be done before the acting minion decides whether or not to play a maneuver. It doesn't mean that the window can be skipped by the acting player. There's no such thing as a race between who plays his card first neither.