On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
16 Nov 2011 14:57 #14554
by Joscha
Baron of Frankfurt
On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card" was created by Joscha
This is the second thread of the discussions about cards some people see as problematic.
As this is a collection of arguments for keeping the card as it is (PRO card) or changing it in whatever way (CONTRA card).
It would be most useful, if you could write above your entry, if your arguments are PRO or CONTRA the card as it is to attain best clarity of what speaks in favor of the card and what does not.
After 7 days of discussion I will initialize a poll about that specific card, in which the alternatives can be found.
Ashur Tablets
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool and choose up to thirteen cards from your ash heap. Move one of those cards to your hand and shuffle the others into your library.
I'm not sure on this card. I'm a bit annoyed that so many people rely on it and I think it is just so good because of Liquidation. After all it is just 3 pool for 3 MPAs. Of course recursion is always strong. But master cards are often very good. And there must be something in addtion to the poolgain. So yet I'm rather PRO.
As this is a collection of arguments for keeping the card as it is (PRO card) or changing it in whatever way (CONTRA card).
It would be most useful, if you could write above your entry, if your arguments are PRO or CONTRA the card as it is to attain best clarity of what speaks in favor of the card and what does not.
After 7 days of discussion I will initialize a poll about that specific card, in which the alternatives can be found.
Ashur Tablets
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool and choose up to thirteen cards from your ash heap. Move one of those cards to your hand and shuffle the others into your library.
I'm not sure on this card. I'm a bit annoyed that so many people rely on it and I think it is just so good because of Liquidation. After all it is just 3 pool for 3 MPAs. Of course recursion is always strong. But master cards are often very good. And there must be something in addtion to the poolgain. So yet I'm rather PRO.
Baron of Frankfurt
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16 Nov 2011 15:24 #14565
by Aeschere
Replied by Aeschere on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
PRO
Fine as it is. You sacrifice 3 MPA to get 3 pool and some cards back. True, the stalling effect it has on the game can be annoying but I can live with that.
Also the added effect of removing all Ashur Tablets on the table when it triggers makes it quite balanced.
Fine as it is. You sacrifice 3 MPA to get 3 pool and some cards back. True, the stalling effect it has on the game can be annoying but I can live with that.
Also the added effect of removing all Ashur Tablets on the table when it triggers makes it quite balanced.
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16 Nov 2011 15:32 #14568
by acbishop
Replied by acbishop on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
PRO
same reasons as Aeschere
same reasons as Aeschere

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16 Nov 2011 15:34 #14570
by Amenophobis
Replied by Amenophobis on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
CONTRA
Taking repeatedly the same Sudden or DI into hand is very annoying. It synergizes too well with MMPAs.
Taking repeatedly the same Sudden or DI into hand is very annoying. It synergizes too well with MMPAs.
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16 Nov 2011 15:54 #14577
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
CONTRA
The card is great, the trouble arises when played with multiple MPA vampires mainly (eg. Nana) because it allows a too strong recursion due to its "fetching" effect (see below).
The pool gain isn't a big deal. 3 MPA to gain 3 pool in the end is fine.
Shuffling back some cards isn't that strong when your library is more than half empty. Liquidation is nasty because it allows you to purge your deck.
Tutoring any card is bad, especially when you've played liquidation and your ash heap is very likely to contain that card you'd like to fetch (Anthelios, Entrancement, Giant's Blood).
I would simply remove the clause saying that you can put back a card in hand.
The card is great, the trouble arises when played with multiple MPA vampires mainly (eg. Nana) because it allows a too strong recursion due to its "fetching" effect (see below).
The pool gain isn't a big deal. 3 MPA to gain 3 pool in the end is fine.
Shuffling back some cards isn't that strong when your library is more than half empty. Liquidation is nasty because it allows you to purge your deck.
Tutoring any card is bad, especially when you've played liquidation and your ash heap is very likely to contain that card you'd like to fetch (Anthelios, Entrancement, Giant's Blood).
I would simply remove the clause saying that you can put back a card in hand.
The following user(s) said Thank You: extrala
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16 Nov 2011 16:12 #14581
by Pendargon
Replied by Pendargon on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"
CONTRA
I feel that whole "broken" effect comes from 1 thing : multiple MPA dacks fetching back masters to abuse through multiple MPA's
So, my proposed change would be - no card goes in hand, and only gives back MINION cards.
I feel that whole "broken" effect comes from 1 thing : multiple MPA dacks fetching back masters to abuse through multiple MPA's
So, my proposed change would be - no card goes in hand, and only gives back MINION cards.







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