On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

17 Nov 2011 09:15 #14721 by Hakuron

Replied by Hakuron on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

PRO

I totally agree with Izzak and Adam.

:tore:

National Coordinator Germany

nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de

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17 Nov 2011 14:09 #14744 by elotar

Replied by elotar on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

CONTRA

1. Slows the game (which is alredy very slow)
2. Best way to abuse MMPA (which is "priced" wrong mostly)

NC Russia

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elotar
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17 Nov 2011 15:06 - 17 Nov 2011 15:07 #14749 by johannes

Replied by johannes on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

I think the card has three effects that have to be regarded separately:

- Take a card in hand
- Recycle cards to library
- Gain pool

I am neither PRO nor CONTRA, however I find the take in hand effect to be very strong, because it is often equivalent to a search library. So this card gives not only recursion (which was hard to get before) but also search library for ANY card (which was even harder to get before). This is all balanced by the effect that everybody can play it (how can a card be too strong if every deck can have it), and the race effect. I feel had the card been properly playtested it would have resulted in a slight change (like requiring 4-5 of them for 4-5 pool).

Last edit: 17 Nov 2011 15:07 by johannes.

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17 Nov 2011 17:46 #14779 by elotar

Replied by elotar on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

johannes wrote:
I think the card has three effects that have to be regarded separately:

- Take a card in hand
- Recycle cards to library
- Gain pool

The main problem with this card is the time which all this effects takes to execute, so they realy can't be separated :laugh:

NC Russia

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elotar
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17 Nov 2011 18:53 #14788 by johannes

Replied by johannes on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

elotar wrote:

johannes wrote:
I think the card has three effects that have to be regarded separately:

- Take a card in hand
- Recycle cards to library
- Gain pool

The main problem with this card is the time which all this effects takes to execute, so they realy can't be separated

Slow play is not a problem of Ashur Tablets, it is a general problem. If I play and trigger Ashurs my Master Phase is still below 30 seconds, just a matter of planning. I also take not additional time when playing Imbued. I have however faced players who take 10 minutes for their turn with 2 vampires, no masters in play and then bleed for 1.

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17 Nov 2011 19:10 #14796 by extrala

Replied by extrala on topic Re: On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"

I am really undecided on this:

Pro:
* Only problematic with multiple MPA
* Blood gain is OK, e.g. when compared to Ascendance.
* Card retrieval to the library only is ok.
* Removal of *all* Ashurs is fine (when one player makes the full set).

Contra:
* Only problematic with multiple MPA
* Generic recursion, one idea would be the limitation to clan (e.g. Harbinger, Giovanni)
* Card tutoring directly to the hand without any drawback is bad. The second best card Sudario Refraction is an action card and always has the chance element of losing three cards you wanted to keep.

Short Term: Keep the card as it is.
Long Term: Dim down the card by changing the card text/requirement for the card.

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On Ashur Tablets 2. "problematic card"