The Deck to Beat: Ani Combat

I find 2 ranged aggrevated damage, that costs zero blood and can be used at close range quite powerful, actually. Theft/Press/Walk does actually see play because it's decent enough. Your comparison to Ahriman's Desmene is flawed because that HAS a range restriction *and* costs 2 blood to boot.

Regardless, I was more talking about a card like Blood to Water, which we might actually see people play in some obscure decks if THA had a strike like:

Combat
no cost
tha: 1R with an optional maneuver
THA: as above, with an optional press

Which is basically Aid from Bats for thaumaturgy, so it probably needs to do some more thaumaturgically-themed stuff but you get the idea.

Then again, such a card would only encourage people to build silly Anathema or other burn vampire decks which in the end don't make you win and only make other people annoyed so maybe it's not that a good idea anyway

Wow, that comparing Walk of Flame to Ahriman's Demense was so flawed it's not even funny.

WoF, require 2nd round.
AD, require 2 blood, 2nd round AND long range.

Inferior: both are 1R agg. Verdict, WoF is useful, AD is useless.
Superior: WoF is 2R agg, AD is 1R agg, and opponent go to torpor, burn him instead. WoF comes with discipline which have decent cards that give press or comes with disciplines that give 2nd round of combat outright (it's more widespread than ), it's free and preventing 2 agg is harder for non fortitude than preventing 1 damage (for it's also harder). AD comes from discipline that have no good card that give press and comes with disciplines that aren't good sources for maneuver and press, preventing 1 agg is way easier than preventing 2 agg. Verdict, AD is useless, WoF is not bad.

Izaak wrote:

Theft + Walk of Flame shits all over "standard" Animalism combat. The problem with that is, that without presses of your own Walk of Flame isn't going to do an awful lot, which hurts your deck against everything else.

I really feel Thaumaturgy needs some sort of strike with an inbuilt press to make all those round 2 goodies playable...

It doesn't, it really doesn't. Because if you press to continue, you eat 2-3 more damage just to lay down a Walk of Flame. Because if they press to continue, you won't always have the Walk of Flame and sometimes they don't care (Stick?). And because in the mid- to late-game all the guys are down to 1 blood and you end up losing every combat.

Bond with the Mountain at is Strike: Dodge with an optional press. For a blood!

It doesn't, it really doesn't. Because if you press to continue, you eat 2-3 more damage just to lay down a Walk of Flame. Because if they press to continue, you won't always have the Walk of Flame and sometimes they don't care (Stick?).

Well, sure if you assume worst case scenario then you always end up losing. A more likely scenario is both minions at 2-3 blood. Crows + Bats vs Theft. You take 1 damage net, he takes 2.

Round 2, you take 3, he takes 1 and goes to torp which is another 2 blood plus an action, so you end up being +1 on blood and +1 action for 2 cards played each.

Of course, like I said (or rather implied), Thaumaturgy can't really afford to play more than 3-4 Walk of Flame and will end up losing in the long run if it builds a deck that can win. But that's ok, because tremere have dominate

But I stand by that pure THA beats pure ANI. It's just that no serious deck goes pure THA combat, while pure ANI combat can actually win.

Izaak wrote:

Theft + Walk of Flame shits all over "standard" Animalism combat. The problem with that is, that without presses of your own Walk of Flame isn't going to do an awful lot, which hurts your deck against everything else.

I really feel Thaumaturgy needs some sort of strike with an inbuilt press to make all those round 2 goodies playable...

Teft + Walk of Flame + telepathic tracking

Burst of Sunlight + fortitude

Torn signpost + earthshock

Thrown gate + target vitals

Drawing out the beast + Song in the Dark

Terror Frenzy + Amria + Mayaparisatya
(expensive combo to reduce cost use Gabrin and/or path of paradox/Fatuus Mastery)