\'Avenger\' Time Management Co.

Klaital wrote:

For a multirush deck, you don't have NEARLY enough rushes. Only 8 rushes in 89 cards wont do, you need at least 14.

Thanks. Been thinking if 8's enough. The next step was taking it to 10.

Also where are all your immortal grapples? Sure Lapse is cute, but IG does effectively same and is free.

What would I do with IG then? I was thinking IG's exactly redundant as Outside the Hourglass and Disarm torporize guys just the same - I don't really have to worry about combat ends or anything.

I would definetily ditch the equipment and kiss of lachesis to bolster your main focus more. You could use some more prevent too, especially unflinching persistences.

AK's been super effective against pretty much anything guys have put me up against. I think they save me card slots. Using potence uses a lot of cards.

Unflintching persistance I used earlier a bit more, but found that I really have all the manouvers I need in the AK and Outsides. I found myself needing presses a lot more than manouvers a lot of times - thus indominability.

The preventation comes in more in an environment where there's hells a lot more combat, but in major tournaments I'm expecting to see more combat ends and bleeds/votes than serious combat.

On top of that, you don't really have much any combat there that does damage, all those tastes when most you can hit for is 3 unless you get that single preternatural in the deck? Almost half of your combat cards don't actually help you win a combat, they just make it nicer for you -if- you win.

Torporizing with Outside and Disarm and tasting for 2/3 usually does the trick. Once again I'd need to rearrange the whole combat pool to include more cards to deal more damage.

Also, if/once I get the AK, tasting for 2/3 quickly becomes tasting for 4/6. Gunslingers always go for doubles!

That is going to result in pretty bad hand jam often I can tell you. Overall I think this deck has way too much tool-up and 'win more if I am already winning' cards, and not enough stuff that actually makes things happen. You better hope you don't run to any real combat deck or you get eaten alive.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that any other real combat deck would destroy me horribly. I'm kinda just metagaming that I'm not going to run into them that much, and if I am, there's going to be better places for them to rush than me.

Okay, but the hand jam probability is a real issue, as always. Thanks. But I'm pretty sceptical in that adding more combat cards will deal with that problem. Adding a wee rush more might, however! Last time, indeed, I was ousted mainly because the first rush wasn't in the first 8 cards, but in the first 11 cards - was dead before that! So yeah, adding more rushes might be a valid option.

If you mean by tool-up the intercept stuff I have, yeah, I guess you might be right. A single something might be well enough. I'm kind of driven between Rumour Mill and Sport Bike though - the other lets my Caitiff block as well, but the other isn't a master, and I'd like to have another Dreams instead of the Newspaper.

Which cards make me win more when I'm already winning? Decapitate? Might be. Anything else?


Krausedit\\

The most recent modifications to the deck:
-1 Galaric's Legacy
-1 Rumor Mill
-1 Sport Bike
-1 Decapitate
-1 Domain of Evernight

+2 Ambush
+1 Big Game
+1 Harass
+1 Freak Drive

It does seem a bit better now. 12 rushes seems better than those 8, and I can't believe I got through the master jams before. Now that I tried going through some shuffles I ended up with horrible amounts of masters.

I'd love to have some intercept, since I feel so very, very voulnerable without it, but I think making pooldamage might be more called for. Thus the Anarch Revolts.

I think I'll try to borrow Anarch Converts from mates, as well as a Carlton. Carlton would be awesome.

Decapitates, disarms, and tastes are all combat cards that don't help you win a combat, just make you win more when you do win. Also note that disarm is only usable in close range, which is why more unflinchings are nice.

Also the thing about intercept, I have often found in rush decks that casual intercept only dilutes your deck, drawing that sport bike when you would need a rush or a combat card just sucks, and most of the time it just helps someone cycle stealth. Although I did use one Raven Spy and handful of predator's communions in my akunanse rush deck for reasonable effect, so it can work too.

I personally also do not recommend using anarch revolts, only thing they usually do is help someone else win (usually the fast stealth bleeder or weenie vote on the table). You should put codex in there though, it can seriously speed up the ousting. Do you really need summon history or path of the scorched heart there?

Klaital wrote:

Decapitates, disarms, and tastes are all combat cards that don't help you win a combat, just make you win more when you do win. Also note that disarm is only usable in close range, which is why more unflinchings are nice.

Outside the Hourglasses help me win the combats, and Disarms do the torporizing. Would you go for torn signposts instead of them? I've tried that, and found that OtHG and Disarm are vastly superior, at least when you'll need to save the card slots for something else. I'd actually like to add a sixth disarm if I had more!

Even a taste for 2 will save me a lot of trouble. I could imagine adding a single torn signpost, but seriously I'd rather have a tenth OtHG.

Unflinchings are nice, you got that right. Maybe Indominabilities and Unflinchings should be 3 and 2 instead of 4 and 1.

I've plenty of times found myself using the AK's manouver to close instead of long if I see a combat end at long coming. It's working okay.

Also the thing about intercept, I have often found in rush decks that casual intercept only dilutes your deck, drawing that sport bike when you would need a rush or a combat card just sucks, and most of the time it just helps someone cycle stealth. Although I did use one Raven Spy and handful of predator's communions in my akunanse rush deck for reasonable effect, so it can work too.

Yeah, I figured that too, and now I took out all the intercept. Sometimes I really would like to react to others, however, instead of just being pre-emptive! But I guess I'll just need to get over it.

I personally also do not recommend using anarch revolts, only thing they usually do is help someone else win (usually the fast stealth bleeder or weenie vote on the table). You should put codex in there though, it can seriously speed up the ousting. Do you really need summon history or path of the scorched heart there?

Path, yes, definitely - no majesty even for untaps, and it's basically a free action. It also trumps things like Rötschreck or Drawing out the Beast which would seriously hinder my game. Anarch Revolt was a blast, however, in two games I played this morning - it really made the table very much quicker, which I will need if I'm to oust people in the first place! On the second game I didn't draw tastes and rushes at the same time however, and I grew low on blood. Eventually I was very close to be ousted by the Revolt myself, so I really have to get my hands on some Anarch Converts - or take an anarch action myself as soon as possible.

Summon History gets me a choice of 5 blood instead of 5 pool for an AK, or a readily active Mylan or Ossian. I can choose which stuff I'll need instead of hoping I'll draw them. This far it's worked fine, but I can see how it might jam my hand. I'll try to experiment this next week. Thanks for pointing it out.

So, we played two games today, and now that I found myself playing NOT in front of a familiar player and a S&B the games were SO much more interesting for me. In the end game I took some beating by blood denial techs and the like, but all in all I think I could have something here. I'll just need to find a means to get the AK with as little pool as possible, even more reliably than Kiss of Lachesis and Summon History. And, well, I think if I can't do anything else, I'll just need to equip in in the old fashioned way.

Okay, but what to think about:

Adding Codex - thanks Klaital! I could just do that. I'm just wondering if the Caitiff have enough blood to use it properly.
Anarch Revolts - they've worked wonders now that I tested them. Let's see how they work next week.
Combat package - I'm still getting low on blood, and that's a problem. Maybe I just don't have enough tastes. Any ideas OTHER THAN using Torn Signpost + Immortal Grapple to get the most out of Taste of Vitae? The AK usually does the trick.

Other than that, I'll try playing a wee bit more, but all in all I think I just might take this to Ropecon.

Some minor tweaks I made today:

-1 Cesar Holfield
+1 Anarch Convert

-1 Indominability
-1 Superior Mettle
-1 Wider View
-1 Kiss of Lachesis
+1 Outside the Hourglass
+1 Taste of Vitae
+1 Bum's Rush
+1 Dreams of the Sphinx

I just found my hand clogging a bit on combat that wasn't useful to me. I can't prevent stuff when the opponent combat ends, and Superior mettle costs blood to boot. Out it goes. Also I noticed how unimportant Wider View is - Dreams does the exact same thing, and other stuff as well.

Also, I still struggled sometimes with a lack of rushes and enough tastes. On many occasions those 3 blood would've saved me a lot of agony.

Now masters seem to clog my hand a bit, and I would definitely add one extra Freak Drive instead of one Bum's Rush, but there my card pool fails me.

Still trying to find space for Carlton.

Thanks for all the advice, guys! This turned out to be a blog of sorts in the end. Any ideas and comments are still welcome.

About Codex of the Edenic Groundkeepers - I'm not really sure if I'll be adding it. It seems very heavy, and even though Anarch Revolts are easy to remove, I found them to be very, very effective. People haven't fallen for stealth bleeds yet just because of those. I mean, a S&B has pushed through metuselahs no matter what happens on the far side of the table. It hasn't been up to a couple of pool - and often my crosstable has just gone anarch. That's okay by me in the grand scheme of things. Once I (hopefully) oust, I can just torporize their anarchs.

The deck draws insane amounts of aggro. The malks in front of me decided it was more worthwhile to bleed me to death instead of the !Ventrue in front of them. No surprise there, really, I can understand why he did it.

The deck's very hard to play, but should be very rewarding if I happen to get in a great slot in the tournament. Let's prey for an absence of Obedience!

I'd suggest more Path of the Scorched Heart. Nothing like stopping people from playing Majesty when you're a rush deck... and this action which has an untap built-in gives you the chance to cancel every Majesty by playing one card.

Also if you mainly want to control range with the AK, you might want to consider switching them to deer rifles instead, for more manuevers at cheaper cost, or even just to zip guns so you don't need an action to get it, and it would be free also.

There is also the thing about disarms, unless you have some reliable way of removing the vampires from torpor, its not really that great as it will just cost them 2 blood and an action to recover from it, and then you can't disarm the same guy again. And if you have no votes, then only way for you to do that is to try to eat them with your nerds at no stealth, which in the best case scenario means you lose a bleeder also.