List of cards to ban

elotar wrote:

When you ban overpowered card, you r facticaly "unbanning" several cards which wasn't played because of it. So you got more cards to play with.

Even if you assume the extremist position that Villein has turned Minion Tap into total wallpaper which no one can ever play ever ever, think about what you're saying here.

Villein not banned and Tap tehrefore unplayable = one Villein/Tap-type effect in the game (Villein)
Villein banned and Tap therefore playable = one Villein/Tap-type effect in the game (Tap)

So banning Villein would not open up any deck-design space which doesn't already exist in the game. And since it's provably true that Villein hasn't wallpapered Tap forever and ever, there are currently two Villein/Tap-type effects in the game. By your own logic, banning Villein would therefore result in fewer card choices when deckbuilding.

I have stated before banning Villein is not the right move. There seems to be a lot of people interested in it. It was a bad call to take away the only negative things with Villein. Before you needed to take at least 2 pool or not be able to use it. It is superior to minion tap because it is a trifle and is basically a minion tap that there are fewer of and punishes the use of minion tap which is not a bad thing. A card that good needs something negative about it and the ruling made it too good. This organization just got off the ground. It would be nice to see it start by being active and address this, but I think pride would be too much the factor.

elotar wrote:

I think if I'll repeat it for a hundred times, somebody will read it.

Maybe you should try offering up something specific, instead? Like, _what_ cards would be 'unbanned', if you were to ban card X,Y, or Z.

When you ban overpowered card, you r facticaly "unbanning" several cards which wasn't played because of it. So you got more cards to play with.

Yeah. Its just an annoying meme, if you just keep re-posting it like that...

bakija wrote:

You still have Scouting Mission. Which still gives you 2 free pool (which is the net effect of Govern anyway). And you still get to bleed for 5 with 2 cards and a blood (Scouting Mission+Conditioning).

scouting < govern as 1 pool < 1 blood. bleed for 5 with 2 cards is just 2,5 bleed per card, just 0,5 better than comphaking. I think - fine.

That Deflection leaves you untapped at DOM is the problem. If the superior was something else (don't pay a blood, say), it'd be reasonable. But as it is, Redirection and Murmur are both infinitely less good than Deflection. And Telepathic Misdirection is ok, but if you can use Deflection, you are still better off.

Here we got attitude "bleed is boring", so you r not often bled even once per turn. So you got nothing by staying untapped. Also I think everywhere majority of redirects are played with wakes, so you r already tapped.

elotar wrote:

Here we got attitude "bleed is boring", so you r not often bled even once per turn. So you got nothing by staying untapped. Also I think everywhere majority of redirects are played with wakes, so you r already tapped.

I don't think I'm really comfortable with a person who has such a highly distorted meta-game leading the discussion about banning one or another card. You _do_ at least recognize that your play enviornment is far different than the ones that you are seeking to drastically change through these bans, right?

Kushiel wrote:

Even if you assume the extremist position that Villein has turned Minion Tap into total wallpaper which no one can ever play ever ever, think about what you're saying here.
Villein not banned and Tap tehrefore unplayable = one Villein/Tap-type effect in the game (Villein)
Villein banned and Tap therefore playable = one Villein/Tap-type effect in the game (Tap)
So banning Villein would not open up any deck-design space which doesn't already exist in the game. And since it's provably true that Villein hasn't wallpapered Tap forever and ever, there are currently two Villein/Tap-type effects in the game. By your own logic, banning Villein would therefore result in fewer card choices when deckbuilding.

If Villein only walpapered MT there will be no powerlevel problems (availability problem will be still here). Unfortunately, by being a trifle, which, generally, means "free", it also walpapered mostly all other blood management options for mid+ cap vamps.

In "MT times" you need to chose between it, Blood dolls, vessels, groomings, maibe even non master options, because "common" master slots are crouded. Now mostly all of it is just inferior.

Also, surely I can't predict future, but it all looks like it will wallpaper whole deck archetipes, which can't deal with repeating villein-golconda.

PS: I'm now even thinking to make small caps with villeins, got this idea when writing this post.