Assamites with presence

agree that disengage is not a good one, but if it can safe your butt go for it. I saw PRE OBF s&b deck that only concern was IG. After adding few disengages it won a tournament. On the other hand, groundfighting card you've mentioned is much better but requires anarch.
From your description, you want to use assamites mainly for defense (black sunrsie, nest of eagles, etc.) and focus the blood. For those you can use AUS which has much better defence options and Viccisitude (Inner Essence). Tzimisce have nice crypt for this (The Rose, Velya, Lambach and anti Toreador Matteus, Flesh Sculptor). Additionally Lambach has built in aggro hand damage which is really nice against IG.
Slightly off topic, but if you like catatonic fear + target vitals combo it pairs really nicelly with shattering crescondo. Below is a deck of mine which was really succesfull in casual games and gave me a tournament final. Maybe you can find some inspiration here:

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 28, Max: 36, Avg: 8,16)

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4 Dmitra Ilyanova obf CEL FOR POT PRE9 Brujah
4 Scout Youngwood MEL OBF PRE for qui8 Daughters of Cacophony
2 Tara cel POT PRE 6 Brujah
2 Undele obf pre ser CEL FOR9 Ishtarri

Library: (75 cards)

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Master (16 cards)
6 Ashur Tablets
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Giant`s Blood
1 Monastery of Shadows
1 Pentex Subversion
3 Villein
2 Wider View

Action (11 cards)
1 Entrancement
10 Shattering Crescendo

Action Modifier (18 cards)
3 Bewitching Oration
1 Faceless Night
4 Forgotten Labyrinth
2 Into Thin Air
2 Lost in Crowds
3 Perfect Paragon
3 Voter Captivation

Political Action (10 cards)
1 Ancilla Empowerment
4 Kine Resources Contested
1 Lily Prelude
4 Parity Shift

Reaction (6 cards)
6 Second Tradition: Domain, The

Combat (13 cards)
7 Catatonic Fear
6 Target Vitals

Equipment (1 cards)
1 Heart of Nizchetus

Ankha wrote:

brettscho wrote:

To my mind, it's a shame that card like Immortal Grapple shut down deck ideas (oh melee weapons other than WWS, how I miss you).

Melee weapons suck, with or without Immortal Grapple.
They cost too much and work only at close range. Compare a Bang Nakh with a .44 Magnum for instance.
No, IG is not a problem. An absence of IG would be a problem for Potence combat decks.

IG and Combat Ends together are the problem with combat as I see it because they constitute winner take all combat in a nutshell. Have CE and opponent doesn't grapple? You generally get out of combat without a scratch other than what the combat ends card costs. Your opponent has grapple vs your works-most-of-the-time combat ends? Go to torpor or burn.

Removing grapple and not addressing strike: combat ends would be a bad idea. I would prefer to see combat be more varied and with combat ends being weaker or nonexistant I think that would happen.

Most complaints about IG can be summed up with the following sentence: "I have this cool deck where no one can block me and I can avoid all combat, I'd be unstoppable!! Oh fuck IG."

I'm fine with removing cards like IG from the game, if all S:CE cards are removed as well.
**edit addendum** Though I expect whines about additional strikes and cancel dodge cards shortly after.

Wow, friendly crowd. Nearly all non-standard deck concepts are going to be weaker than established decks. There is a reason that these decks are established. Just commenting to point that out doesn't really seem to accomplish anything other than alienating the player who posted. And if you haven't noticed, there aren't many of us left. Let's not drive off the few people who still play VTES.

Let’s read the original post again:

I hate that moment when you create a deck and then are reminded, "oh yeah, still fucked by immortal grapple, Spirit Marionnette + Heidelberg. Nevermind." Here's another deck I won't build

The point of this post wasn’t to learn how to make the deck better. It was to whine about Immortal Grapple and minion stealing. I think the responses the poster got were reasonably friendly and appropriate given the context of the original post. Sure, they were critical. But let’s relax a little with admonishing relatively innocuous posts for alienating people.

I also think that the comment regarding very dominant archetypes is a fair one. To my mind, it's a shame that card like Immortal Grapple shut down deck ideas (oh melee weapons other than WWS, how I miss you). And vampire stealing has no place in our game. Protect Thine Own was also banned because one action shouldn't deprive a player of that much pool along with their ability to act / defend. Vampire stealing is directly analogous. But I suppose I'm wandering off topic now.

Immortal Grapple and minion stealing have been in the game since 1994. V:TES was designed to have trump cards and deck archetypes that tend to fare better than others. It is what it is. I find it funny that V:TES attracts the arm-chair game designer type who wants to “fix” everything. What is the point of playing a game only to complain about its faults? Just go design your own game already.