Rules update suggestion: Pre-Range into Preparation Step

Uhm I accidentally clicked "delete" while editing my post here. I did not intend to either delete it or create duplicates, but now my post isn't visible... I have no idea what actually happened.

I think there should be a "are you sure? yes/no" prompt when deleting posts so you can't accidentally click one button and delete the post you may have spent a long time writing just like that..

When i first started playing (and i learned the game without being taught by an existing player) i thought 'before range is determined was DURING the maneuver steps.

Much like other reactions / modifiers that arent stealth or intercept can be played before a block is determined successful - i thought those 'pre range' cards that say 'before range is determined' had a chance to be played while going long /close again.

Obviously i was wrong when i started getting more into the game, but this conversation reminded me of it.

Why, in the scenario of 2 vamps chasing each-other down/moving away to long range, there inst an opportunity to pull a singpost out of the ground or summon some crows, im not sure =p

2c. not really helpfull i know

narpassword wrote:

not really helpfull i know

Very helpful, actually. If the new player experience is pre-range, and then some older cards refer to before range is determined, that is not only easier to remember (pre-range, it's snappy) its shorter, makes card text simpler, and is not confusing. This is an eminently sensible suggestion.

narpassword wrote:

2c. not really helpfull i know

Insanely helpful actually.

The initial feel, clarity and intuitivity of the rules is what matters. Or, should matter. Older players are a thing, sure, but they'll be playing the game anyways.

Be it anything (preparation, pre-range, start of round (I'd prefer beginning actually)), it would be better than 'before range is determined'. It's wordy, not intuitive at all, clunky and... just no. EVEN if it would be written into the rulebook.

I'd argue most people will not learn the game by the book, and there clarity in card texts without having to ask for help in sequencing is one of the most important things.

Kraus wrote:

narpassword wrote:

2c. not really helpfull i know

Insanely helpful actually.

The initial feel, clarity and intuitivity of the rules is what matters. Or, should matter. Older players are a thing, sure, but they'll be playing the game anyways.

Be it anything (preparation, pre-range, start of round (I'd prefer beginning actually)), it would be better than 'before range is determined'. It's wordy, not intuitive at all, clunky and... just no. EVEN if it would be written into the rulebook.

I'd argue most people will not learn the game by the book, and there clarity in card texts without having to ask for help in sequencing is one of the most important things.

So, from strictly a copyeditor's perspective, and not a game designer's perspective (I'm not a game designer), I don't think any of the suggestions above are better than "before range is determined." I get that it's wordy and might benefit from a slight wordsmithing, but it's written that way because the words in that step ("before range is determined)" is consistent with the wording in the "determine range" step outlined in the rulebook. To change the wording to something like, for example, "pre-range" is introducing inconsistency in wording, which may cause confusion. Consider that there is such a thing as a ranged strike in this game totally unrelated to determining range. "Pre-range" may confuse new players by having them make the incorrect connection that the "pre-range" step happens before ranged strikes are chosen. Because the word "determine" is not in there, there's nothing connecting it to the "determine range" step. I think any "pre-range" rewording needs to match the wording used in the "determine range" step. Hence "Play before range is determined" or "Play before determining range."

I'll probably get a response saying that if people are that dumb, they shouldn't play this game, and that I'm making a specious argument. Fair enough. But the more we think about minor points of confusion brought about by unclear rewriting, the more favors we will be doing ourselves. It's always best to be way too clear than not clear enough.