question-circle Could VTES get something like Legacy Format (from Magic)?

10 Jun 2018 22:08 #88086 by elotar

Obviously, if staples are in shops in sets new players have easier times.


Apart from some cards, there was never an availability problem in VtES even if we "forget" that tournaments allowed proxies - anybody with internet access could assemble competent (and long lasting!) deck for a price, much lower than what you will need to spend on tournament playable MTG one.

Key problem for new players always was extreme complexity of the game, impossibility to grasp giant card pool and enormous experience gap. They do not care about difference in places, where to buy singles or their cost - if you want to save money you are not playing CCG. ;)

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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11 Jun 2018 07:47 #88093 by Malachy

Key problem for new players always was extreme complexity of the game, impossibility to grasp giant card pool and enormous experience gap. They do not care about difference in places, where to buy singles or their cost - if you want to save money you are not playing CCG. ;)


I have never, ever met a player who was discouraged by complexity of VtES. I'm 99% sure, I've never even heard of one, who goes like: nah, that game is too hard for me, I'll stick with MtG or Hearthstone.
Card pool was not a problem either, because as you said, almost all decks can be assembled online, and it is amongst the rarest of cases, when a new player shows up that he learnt the game on his own, acquired some cards and now wants to actually play. I'm saying this because here, any new players recruited, were met with the oldbies' card pool at their feet. Yeah some of them left during the learning proccess, but most of them liked it and slowly built their own card pool, based on anything they wanted to try out and how they liked them.
Thanks to that method, and the nature of VtES itself, around here, money was never a factor whether one plays the game or not. That was always the bold-lined destinction between MtG and VtES, and still is I believe. But eventually you will need money, yes, although not as much as buying packs for HS or MtG.
The XP gap... well yeah, it exists and it gaps. One can only hope newbies will see it as an enticing goal to achieve, not as a chasm impossible to cross. Learning curve is very [sqrt x]-like, so to speak, some need only a coulpe of months, some years or eternity :P (good thing we are immortal vamps).

A new format could be exciting, but I feel no need for it regarding recruiting new players. I know it's not the topic's main theme, but recruiting is our community's main issue, at least here, in Hungary. To avoid VtES being as Elotar described "the oldbies' game". I've been giviving it thoughts for so long, not to lure out the grumpy, ever-so-demanding old players, who usually sit on tonnes of cards but refusing to socialize and play, but to lure in new players. I might start a thread about this in the following days, so I'll stop offing this thread, mea culpa :D

NC of Hungary

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11 Jun 2018 14:38 #88105 by Thin_Blood

It overlooks the value provided by players being there to play against. If new players can't find people playing the game and can't get into those games, you may well lose the money they would spend.


It's completely fictional story - in 99% of the world's locations there are no regular VtES gaming activity at all. "few oldbies" are sitting at home, and maybe(!) leave torpor for something like National.

The logic here is also strange - 99% of old players are at like 30+ age group so usually can afford to spend some money and got crap loads of cards anyway. There are no problems for them to change their "Sabbat War era weenie" so it will comply with reasonable "Type II" tournament limits.


Here in the Twin Cities USA, we actually have a playgroup that plays regularly. I also here that there is regular group in Austin Texas as well as one in the bay area California. So I do think it actually is not a 'fictional story'. I concede though that 99% of worlds locations probably don't even know the game exists; I'm looking at you Antartica!!!!

“I don’t have cross table buddies. I have a prey I haven’t gotten around to yet.” — Shockwave (English VtES Player).

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12 Jun 2018 16:13 #88128 by elotar

Here in the Twin Cities USA, we actually have a playgroup that plays regularly. I also here that there is regular group in Austin Texas as well as one in the bay area California.


You named 3 playgroups. How many cities you got in US?

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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12 Jun 2018 17:37 #88131 by self biased

Here in the Twin Cities USA, we actually have a playgroup that plays regularly. I also here that there is regular group in Austin Texas as well as one in the bay area California.


You named 3 playgroups. How many cities you got in US?


each of those cities are *does some math* nearly 2000 km from each other.

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15 Jun 2018 20:05 - 15 Jun 2018 20:09 #88201 by ReverendRevolver

Here in the Twin Cities USA, we actually have a playgroup that plays regularly. I also here that there is regular group in Austin Texas as well as one in the bay area California.


You named 3 playgroups. How many cities you got in US?


each of those cities are *does some math* nearly 2000 km from each other.


Real quick from memory, these are the cities/ states with a playgroup I've been to or met at an event in some state. (Note that going back 8 years in my memory means I remember not a ton)

Seattle
Vegas
Colorado
3 in texas, not including the one the poster here mentioned, as of NAC 2010 3 different playgroups from there attended, one only had cards from the first 3 sets and drove to Louisiana from there, and neither of the other groups new them.
Louisiana (dont remember city)
Atlanta
Ithaca NY
Montana(I'll concede I met one dude ever, and the group was 5 ppl 8years ago)
Flint MI
Boston MA
Columbus OH(technically 3ishplaygoups)
Newark OH
Cincinnati OH(might just be the Bells now)
Zanesville OH(haven't spoken to in awhile)
DC(may have evaporated)

Look at my incredibly low rating and weigh in that these are just playgroups I've met people from at tournaments and remember.

The country is huge, broke, and not in frequent communication with casual groups. If a player can afford a new set or a trip 4 states over, they'll enjoy a casual 4player game with new cards 90% of the time.

I met people at week of nightmares Tuesday that live within 45 minutes of me I've never seen before. This is ohio. Imagine what a few enthusiastic groups in a more dense state could do?

Anyway,

Newark Ohio, 2008 14 ppl tournaments.
2010 17-20, with maybe a table worth of out of towners.

Retention of your new players just getting over the learning curve drops when product dries up. Huge carpool is enticing, and learning curve means we all had 2ish stealth bleed decks in our bags for years "just incase" someone new asked about the game.

Format isn't an issue. It's the answer to an imaginary problem. If a playgroup wants to only use half the entire carpool, good news! They omit banned carit's its legal.
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 20:09 by ReverendRevolver.

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