question-circle Could VTES get something like Legacy Format (from Magic)?

08 Jun 2018 13:15 #88037 by self biased

We are back in print, and have a grouping rule. Due to the nature of vtes, filler/wallpaper isn't printed each set. Mtg exists with a certain business model in mind where you keep putting out $400 a year to remain competitive, vtes has a different model where you buy what you need to build what you want, but your same cards from 20 years ago will still get you by.


honest question: should the opinions of people who haven't supported the game in 20+ years and are adamant that they shouldnt have to support the game financially be taken into consideration with regards to how the game is currently produced and distributed? Because every time it comes up in conversation, it feels like there's an egregious amount of fan entitlement at work.

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08 Jun 2018 13:30 #88038 by TwoRazorReign

We are back in print, and have a grouping rule. Due to the nature of vtes, filler/wallpaper isn't printed each set. Mtg exists with a certain business model in mind where you keep putting out $400 a year to remain competitive, vtes has a different model where you buy what you need to build what you want, but your same cards from 20 years ago will still get you by.


honest question: should the opinions of people who haven't supported the game in 20+ years and are adamant that they shouldnt have to support the game financially be taken into consideration with regards to how the game is currently produced and distributed? Because every time it comes up in conversation, it feels like there's an egregious amount of fan entitlement at work.


So, you're asking that when new players give their opinions about why they wouldn't play the game (ie, that the production and distribution model is not ideal for them), nobody should consider their opinion? I'm not sure I agree with that. Then again, I don't seriously play this game and am not very invested in it. My opinion as a total casual fan is that opinions should always be welcome, but with the understanding from the game's current owners that opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one and they all stink.

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08 Jun 2018 13:45 #88040 by elotar

vtes has a different model where you buy what you need to build what you want, but your same cards from 20 years ago will still get you by.


Obviously it's not a business model - if you will be fine with the old cards then you will not be buying anything and the game will die (as new players still can't penetrate game with ~4000 available cards with corresponding "book of rulings"). And obviously even WW got it with power creep of the KoT and HttB sets.

The second problem, outside of business considerations, which is really mostly for BC to "explore", is that if the meta does not change than it's not really interesting to play the same deck in the same environment again and again. There are bunch of players who like to experiment with some crappy clans/card combos, but in general it's a small minority of population.

There may be not a single deck being THE best, but for individual play stile it really is the case. If you got the choice of playing Lutz again and again for a 10th year already or some clearly (for you) inferior deck, than you actually choosing not to play at all (it's a true story of one my friend).

MTG approach is, obviously, a cash grab, but it's possible to invent system to change meta without just regularly wallpapering hundreds of cards.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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09 Jun 2018 17:43 #88062 by jamesatzephyr

vtes has a different model where you buy what you need to build what you want, but your same cards from 20 years ago will still get you by.


Obviously it's not a business model - if you will be fine with the old cards then you will not be buying anything and the game will die


That's oversimplifying things by a long way. It overlooks the value provided by players being there to play against. If new players can't find people playing the game and can't get into those games, you may well lose the money they would spend. So a 2020 newbie buying $100-worth of the Game of Throats expansion and the Agents of C.A.I.N.E. starters may in fact be doing so because near to where she lives, there's a fairly regular tournament or game night that gets reasonably healthy numbers because a few oldbies with a Sabbat War era weenie DEM deck, group 1 Ventrue Law Firm, group 2/3 Giovanni power-bleed and a Howler wall as their favourite decks are boosting the numbers to a much more healthy level.

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10 Jun 2018 14:11 #88072 by elotar

It overlooks the value provided by players being there to play against. If new players can't find people playing the game and can't get into those games, you may well lose the money they would spend.


It's completely fictional story - in 99% of the world's locations there are no regular VtES gaming activity at all. "few oldbies" are sitting at home, and maybe(!) leave torpor for something like National.

The logic here is also strange - 99% of old players are at like 30+ age group so usually can afford to spend some money and got crap loads of cards anyway. There are no problems for them to change their "Sabbat War era weenie" so it will comply with reasonable "Type II" tournament limits.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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10 Jun 2018 15:36 #88073 by ReverendRevolver
Typically it's the "oldbies" of which you speak that lead the charge in new player acquisition.

Also, future distribution models and print options point to mass orders of hand picked cards, meaning those torpid players can rebuild decks without taking current ones apart.
Honestly, not having to move my Dual Lands strip mines, sac lands, etc was what really made vtes win my attention years ago, I could have 10+ competent playable decks without moving things. Then we went out of print and deep song, eyes of argus, and eventually freak drives became moved between decks. Then Anthology came out and upped my count on 2/3 of those, and we are in print, again now...
Basically the insinuated possible production and distribution plans mean players new and old will have access to anything in nice quantity. That eases acquisition and retention. Obviously, if staples are in shops in sets new players have easier times.

All the unplayable wallpaper is the only thing that helps the game being left out, to not confuse new players. Good teachers normally tell new players what cards are good and what cards suck, letting them try their hand with the ones in the middle.
We saw a boom in new players once 8 years ago. This rant is based on actual facts of introduction and retention from then.

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