Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

Girls surely can be beaten by anything if you ally table against them, or torporize all their minions by heavy combat, or weenie bleed them. But any deck can be beaten in such a way.

But most other decks have some weaknesses, which may be explored by "convenient" decks, having 2-3 pool damage a turn as a way to win, whithout any "foreign" help. The whole point of the game is to do it while protecting own weaknesses. But such approach with the girls just don't work - no matter where you're seating, if you'll not deal with them in the first half of the game you'll never win.

But I still want to mention, that the problem really is not in the deck, but just in Villein + MMPA + ash heap recursion combination.

Izaak wrote:

First we see that neither of the two girls deck made the finals. That means that neither had accumulated enough Gamewins (or more likely given the 22-player size, a gamewin at all) to be amongst the top 5 of the day. That means that said girls decks were either ousted OR (more likely) did manage to time the game with less than 2 VP.

I didn't see the other Girls deck, but the one I saw got a game win. Also, it featured some experimental tech so it wasn't girls in their purest form.

Secondly we see that Klaital has not played against said Girls decks, which means that decks OTHER THAN Klaital's deck must have been the decks ousting and/or stopping the girls. Now, unless we are looking at the highly unlikely scenarios that everyone else played weenie dementation, it appears there are *plenty* of decks that can defeat the girls.

People are finally realizing that the whole table needs to turn on the girls. The previous tournament I was sitting at a table with girls as my grand predator and me and my prey managed to convince the table that they need to be dealt with. My Malkavian predator bled upstream, I voted KRC in a three to girls, one to my prey fashion and my prey bled like a loony after making sure that his prey could bounce to the girls. And even so it was ridiculously close as next turn would've been villein golconda and the girls would've had ~20 pool more.

So yeah, they are beatabale. I'm just not sure how much fun it is to go after them with the whole table and afterwards settle for the real game.

Wouldn't a better way to go about this be to first look at whether Girls and similar decks are a problem to competitive and/or casual play?

How often does the deck show up at tournaments?
When it shows up, how often does it win?

If the deck (and similar decks) got a much higher win ratio than other decks, then maybe we could look into why it wins, but trying to figure out the solution before figuring out the problem seems a little silly to me.

Lemminkäinen wrote:

People are finally realizing that the whole table needs to turn on the girls. The previous tournament I was sitting at a table with girls as my grand predator and me and my prey managed to convince the table that they need to be dealt with.

I (being your prey) am still happy that everyone agreed that Lauri's Girls were a problem that had to be quickly dealt with!

Heh, it was the first time with that deck that I got pulse of the Canailles immediattely to my guys, not just one or two but all three of them!


Cyrus, am I correct in assuming that you actually havn't runa corss one of these Girls decks? They consistently tend to do well at tournaments and when top tier player is playing such a deck you're in deep doo doo....

Lönkka wrote:

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Cyrus, am I correct in assuming that you actually havn't runa corss one of these Girls decks? They consistently tend to do well at tournaments and when top tier player is playing such a deck you're in deep doo doo....

Correct.

They don't seem to be that common in the TWDA. I took a look at Daclau, and she's featured in 14 girls decks in 2010 and 2011, compared to 11 decks with Isabel Giovanni.

The point I was trying to make is to move beyond the anecdotes. How often does it actually win?

When not being crushed - all the time.