Another Summon History Q

Well James, on my language turn and circle are synonymous terms.
What I meant is: While this card makes two circles around five-men table, weenie deck will die.
And yes, I know that you will assume that game does not last that long, but my meta is such that we have many, many turns instead of tournament's usual 10-12.

Megabaja wrote:

What I meant is: While this card makes two circles around five-men table, weenie deck will die.

Over 10 complete trips round the table, yes, it's quite possible for a weenie deck to die.

Many cards can destroy a deck if you spend 10 turns without combating them. So don't do that.

If the player who controls Scourge is ousted, the Scourge goes and it cannot be replayed. Weenie Dementation bleed can oust cross-table. Weenie vote (e.g. Legacy of Pander) can too. Breed-boon (e.g. Gratiano Power structure) can probably fuel more weenies with its pool gen, and it can potentially oust cross-table too - many, but by no means all, Con Boon decks include a clutch of offensive votes. You may, of course, get your timing wrong - a player pulls a hitherto unexpected bounce or Delaying Tactics or what have you. Luck, skill and timing play a significant role.

(Weenie rush is somewhat screwed here, but it's screwed in lots of other ways too.)

You can also play the Uncoiling, which is far from perfect, but if you have 10 complete rotations of the table, you've had plenty of time to draw it, play it, and have it go off. Guaranteed? Of course not. But a weenie deck not considering packing Uncoiling is probably missing a trick.

Also, you've had ten complete rotations of the table. That's 10 turns for your weenies to do stuff. Go offensive, oust your prey, and you've got 6 pool - potentially 2 to 3 new weenies for you. If you're playing weenie Tumnimos, 10 turns is plenty of time to crack out Week of Nightmares and destroy a table, ousting Methuselahs in turn.


In those 10 complete rotations of the table where you're sitting on your hands doing nothing:

- Antediluvian Awakening has done up to 50 pool damage (1 pool * 5 meths * 10 rotations)
- Smiling Jack has done something on the order of 160 pool OR blood (OR a combination) damage - 1+2+...+9 = 45, times by 4 other Methuselahs

The response "But I wouldn't sit on my hands doing nothing" applies equally to Scourge. And you can't interact with - for example - Antediluvian yourself as a pure weenie deck, so you can just go on the offensive and oust the crap out of people. If your deck is dead (in ten complete rotations of the table), doesn't matter if you lose your weenies now or then.


There are various criticisms I have of Scourge (most of which are to do with interactivity, rather than outright power), but it's not "Play now, kill a deck now", like a variety of other cards could be or have been.

And yes, I know that you will assume that game does not last that long, but my meta is such that we have many, many turns instead of tournament's usual 10-12.

Then your meta must be an insanely weird one where you play 3-player tables where everyone plays decks that can't hurt other decks and take 1 undirected action per turn that goes unblocked.

That, or you don't play with the intended time limit of 2 hours.

In either case, your meta is not a representation of what the actual game looks like and thus can be completely ignored when it comes to balancing cards.

Scourge shutting down a weenie deck in ~5-8 turns is annoying, but balanced. Kindred Segregation blowing up Imbued decks in one action is not.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

...lose your weenies now or then.

Tee hee... You said "lose your weenies"...

Yeah, I'm feeling real mature here today.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Megabaja wrote:

Or any other weenie deck for that matter... Say you have 6 twocaps... They're dead in two turns...

Let's say my predator plays it in his turn. Table is A->B->C->D->me. D is my predator, A my prey.

So D plays it. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to C.
My turn (turn 1). I have 5.
Go round the table to C. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to B.
My turn (turn 2). I have 4.
Go round the table to B. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to A.
My turn (turn 3). I have 3.
Go round the table to A. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to me.
My turn (turn 4). I have 2. I have Scourge. I choose not to burn my own vampire! Scourge goes to D. I still have 2.
Go round the table to D. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to C.
My turn (turn 5). I have 1.
Go round the table to C. He burns one of my 2 caps. Scourge goes to B.
My turn (turn 6). I have 0.

How are you calculating two turns? It does not go forwards round the table, but to your predator, like Millicent.

Further, in the general case, C (grand-predator) and B (grand-prey) do not automatically have an incentive to kill your vampires.

He forgot to mention that he obviously had played reversal of fortunes first ;D