Force of Wil and Daring the Dawn vs. Red Herring
22 Aug 2022 15:05 - 22 Aug 2022 15:23 #106073
by lip
Force of Wil and Daring the Dawn vs. Red Herring was created by lip
Sorry for yet another question about ended actions. Note that Red Herring text has changed for its DTC reprint (see spoilers below).
[ANK 20220331] makes it clear that Daring the Dawn damage is still applied in case of a Mirror Walk or Change of Target and [ANK 20220401] (same thread) also explains that it's not the case if the action is cancelled before resolution with an effect like Tangle Atropos' Hand.
BUT it uses as a reference (and as such seems to endorse) [LSJ 20010611] which states that Force of Will damage is not applied if Red Herring is played.
My understanding is that it was used as an example to explain the ruling on Tangle Atropos' Hand, but that it does not apply anymore on Red Herring (since it does not cancel the action anymore due to the recent errata). But it's hard to argue without a confirmation.
So can I get an RD confirmation for reference:
- Force of Will and Daring the Dawn damages follow the same rulings
- They both apply their damage if the action ends because of Red Herring: it reached resolution.
[ANK 20220331] makes it clear that Daring the Dawn damage is still applied in case of a Mirror Walk or Change of Target and [ANK 20220401] (same thread) also explains that it's not the case if the action is cancelled before resolution with an effect like Tangle Atropos' Hand.
BUT it uses as a reference (and as such seems to endorse) [LSJ 20010611] which states that Force of Will damage is not applied if Red Herring is played.
My understanding is that it was used as an example to explain the ruling on Tangle Atropos' Hand, but that it does not apply anymore on Red Herring (since it does not cancel the action anymore due to the recent errata). But it's hard to argue without a confirmation.
So can I get an RD confirmation for reference:
- Force of Will and Daring the Dawn damages follow the same rulings
- They both apply their damage if the action ends because of Red Herring: it reached resolution.
Force of Will
Ⓓ Bleed with +1 bleed. After resolution, this vampire takes 2 unpreventable aggravated damage even if the action is blocked.
As above, but with +2 bleed, and the acting vampire takes only 1 unpreventable aggravated damage.
Daring the Dawn
Red Herring (CURRENT)
Unlock this vampire, and the action ends (unsuccessfully). If an action card was used to perform the action, return it to its owner's hand (discard down afterward). Vampires you control cannot perform the same action again this turn.
As above, and lock the blocking minion.
Red Herring (BEFORE REPRINT)
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11 Oct 2022 13:36 #106538
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Force of Wil and Daring the Dawn vs. Red Herring
Correct. Red Herring nows ends the action, so the rulings for similar cards (Mirror Walk, Change of Target) now apply.Sorry for yet another question about ended actions. Note that Red Herring text has changed for its DTC reprint (see spoilers below).
[ANK 20220331] makes it clear that Daring the Dawn damage is still applied in case of a Mirror Walk or Change of Target and [ANK 20220401] (same thread) also explains that it's not the case if the action is cancelled before resolution with an effect like Tangle Atropos' Hand.
BUT it uses as a reference (and as such seems to endorse) [LSJ 20010611] which states that Force of Will damage is not applied if Red Herring is played.
My understanding is that it was used as an example to explain the ruling on Tangle Atropos' Hand, but that it does not apply anymore on Red Herring (since it does not cancel the action anymore due to the recent errata). But it's hard to argue without a confirmation.
Yes (same card text).So can I get an RD confirmation for reference:
- Force of Will and Daring the Dawn damages follow the same rulings
Yes.- They both apply their damage if the action ends because of Red Herring: it reached resolution.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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