On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

Ohlmann wrote:

That were *not* the problem. The problem was "I play to punish Villein abuse and not to win". The deck he propose is not particulary strong against such abuses, so it's pretty much a bad idea.

Getting into combat with pretty much empty vampires sounds like a sweet deal to me
(unless you're wanting to fill your guy up with Taste of Vitae)

Ohlmann wrote:

I have on following post said that combat does not oust. And it's true, like vote lock does nothing by itself combat does not kill your prey, bleed or votes do.

Pretty darn hard to bleed/vote when you're in torpor/burned...

Ohlmann wrote:

All the goodies you propose are pretty slow

Not THAT many decks are quick. Besides being superquick usually earns you more tablehate than you actually want. Non-ultra quick decks sucking is just propaganda the Swedes like to spread

Ohlmann wrote:

but they are useless if you need to kill your prey on the spot because he's preparing something you can't control.

Neither can kill your prey on the spot with bleeds (bounce/intercept/reduction/action fail) or votes (intercept/reduction/action fail/Delaying Tactics and such).

In case you didn't notice, this year's EC was won by a combat deck. Another one wa in teh finals. As well as a Rock Cat/Tupdog deck. But none of those are viable decks since they aren't quick...

Villein is great -- I wouldn't change it. But why does it need to hose Minion Tap? Was tap-and-cap too strong?

Dorrinal wrote:

Villein is great -- I wouldn't change it. But why does it need to hose Minion Tap? Was tap-and-cap too strong?

I remember LSJ saying on the newsgroup that he was leaning toward thinking that Voter Cap was too good, rather a while before Villein was printed. I believe his argument was that it rewards vote decks for "doing what they want to do anyway."

I remember that discussion. Wonder why Voter Captivation never got nerfed.

Edit: Why can't up to 2 of the blood you gain from Taste of Vitae go to your pool?

Dorrinal wrote:

Edit: Why can't up to 2 of the blood you gain from Taste of Vitae go to your pool?

You must have Vampirism at superior

Dorrinal wrote:

I remember that discussion. Wonder why Voter Captivation never got nerfed.

Yeah, printing Villein was a really roundabout way to nerf Voter Cap. Not sure why it wasn't just errata'd, since it could've easily been reprinted in the next base set (which was KoT, which introduced Villein...).