On Villein. 1. "problematic card"

Perhaps a new type of card which stays in play and enhances certain capabilities of vampires over a certain capacity.

Similar to Gehenna cards. Lets the big guys duke it out with each other and take on swarms.

Cards that give them sweeping reduction from Agg to normal, +1 hand damage, the ability to, once per combat to play from your deck a damage reduction card as if it were in your hand without discarding down.

Crate a flow between hand and deck on rare occasions.

IDEA:
Stalwart Lineage or Just "Lineage" card type.
It put's into play effects the entire table.
Only one Lineage card may be in play at a time.
When someone else puts one in play, it discards your Lineage and you gain 1 pool.

off the top of my head.

elotar wrote:

Jeff wrote:

SOME DATA, NOT OPINION

10 TWDs had Villeins
10 TWDs had no Villeins

Breakdown by type with Villeins:
1. Lutz vote (8x)
2. Ventrue G45 (6x)
3. Lutz vote (8x)
4. Armin Brenner vote (4x)
5. Dmitra vote (6x)
6. Saulot bloat/steal (6x)
7. Akunanse (6x)
8. Nana / ANI (7x)
9. Marconius / Faerie Wards (5x)
10.Saulot wall (7x)

Breakdown by type without Villeins:
1. Nana / ANI (144 players)
2. Imbued
3. Ahrimanes w Ashurs
4. Weenie AUS
5. Tupdog / Shamblers
6. Rock Cats
7. Setite Spell of Life
8. Tzimisce Rotschreck
9. Weenie AUS (90 players)
10.Ventrue G4/5

What I see here is that to win you have to play villein or weenie. Exiting.

And back in the days it was Minion Tap. That's just the way things are going. I am totally against banning cards. In my opinion even very strong cards like Memories of Mortality and PTO just needed a little card text update (Memories/Unique - PTO/once per game). Villein is fine as it is, same with Giants Blood. Seeing it being abused, i would agree with changing Liliths Blessing to Unique. But back to the topic. Since villein entered the stage you saw a lot more variety of decks. If you don't want your table to go into timeout just think what you can do against it. Play Sudden Reversal, rush, bleed hard. I am PRO Villein!

Nothing against your personal opinion, just needed something to quote to.

Take it to the enemy.

Don't give them time to regroup.

Blitz. Smash. Steal. Pillage. destroy.

What was there's is now yours.

If you let them sit they'll bloat and be unstoppable.

Force change with a Bang Nakh to the heart.

CON-

I have spoken with a couple of playtesters of K.O.T. and neither of them playtested Villien in its printed form.

I wonder if there are any playtesters here who have?

From what I gathered it was meant to nerf voter cap. by crippling minion tap, thus the trifle function was added last minute as ~no one~ would play with out it. I do not know why the move 2+ blood was included, but I suspect it was intended that the vampire must have at least two blood to play it on. Wording and prior rules superseded intent, thou I could be wrong.


Villien limits competitive deck choices for players without it, whether they be new or returning players. I can see no value in its nerfing of minion tap for the game now or in the future. I believe it has had no effect on the Tap&Cap mechanic other change its name to Villien&Cap.

Giants Blood, Golconda and Lilith Blessing/Villien is a problem. As far as I know, none of which were playtested with the current printing of Villien, certainly not liliths blessing.

Shard wrote:

CON-

I have spoken with a couple of playtesters of K.O.T. and neither of them playtested Villien in its printed form.

I wonder if there are any playtesters here who have?

Luckily for you, I'm having a very slow day at work.

I've never known if the various playtest groups got differing sets of cards to test. I don't think so, because I don't remember ever seeing anything in a new set which we hadn't seen before, during playtest.

That said, here is the card text of Villein during our fourth and final round of KoT playtesting:

Master.
Put this card on a vampire you control and move 1 or more blood from that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost an additional pool. Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire.

Looking at the other three iterations of the card, the only changes to them were that sometimes it was "1 blood" and other times it was "2 blood." We never had any indication that it would be printed as a trifle, nor did we test it that way. I can't remember if we suggested that; I do remember that the general consensus in our group (which we sent to LSJ) was that Villein wouldn't be very likely to be played instead of Minion Tap.

Villein could be reigned in a bit if people who play villein exclusively have their vamps singled out for destruction.

I'm putting together a Gangrel anti deck with this idea in mind. If you play Villein, I'll rush you and torp your vamp. I have plenty of cards to choose from that can get rid of vampires in torpor via diablerie, without diablerie and even take out vamps in their inactive region if the opportunity arises with memories fading glimpse.

It couldn't even really be considered "ganging up" on a certain type of deck, because if I build my deck with minion tap in mind, your playing villein. You are gonna cost me and bloat the game to a slow pace. I mean to keep the game at a faster pace...so....eat some claw.

I like the changes mentioned to villein that give it a 5 cap in blood transfer, but now, with no support for the game doing errata means everyone has to remember every errata OR it's understood that printing your own cards for play in tournaments, in the case of cards with errata, is fine.

I could live with printed cards that will never see a re-print to show the change, but not altogether.(some of that belongs in another thread.)