file Balancing Ashur Tablets

29 Jul 2014 04:13 #64347 by Juggernaut1981
@PB:
Revealing the cards is unecessary, they are all "known" because of the rules on ash heaps. Fine with it being random cards and not chosen cards, it's better than before. It would be good to hear what Darby and ICL would suggest about both of those.

I don't think they should give pool. Card recycling is powerful enough.


It depends on the purpose you want them to play in the game PB... are they to help combat wall decks, combat rush decks, Bleed & Bash... that will help restrict the cardset Ashur Tablets can recur into the library.

@Ankha: As shown by TWDA stats... Liquidation rarely sees play outside an Ashur Tablets deck because you gain for the Liquidation, remove the 'price' of Liquidation later AND get 3 extra pool for removing the 'price' you paid for Liquidation. Those that do play Liquidation and not Ashurs do so to put cards into the ashheap to be converted to other things (i.e. Shambler Decks).

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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29 Jul 2014 05:15 #64348 by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Balancing Ashur Tablets

"Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool, and select randomly up to 13 cards from your ash heap. Show the chosen cards to all players, move one to your hand, and shuffle the others into your library."

What do you think of the proposition above?


I think it's great.

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29 Jul 2014 06:08 #64350 by cordovader

Thank you for that answer Pascal.

Here's hoping, then, that there will be reprints, and that when there are you will consider errating a bit this card to make it less "necessary".

What do you think of the proposition above?


The problem is that it breaks a BIG part of the utility of Ashur Tablets.

I know you hate the time loss generated by Ashur Tablets, but I would be more into a silver bullet-card (As Fragment of Ashur Tablets) than an errata.

I've played them several times myself and I'm really fast choosing the cards (I know my decks from A to Z) and I think we should be aiming that people don't lose time during the games...

Anyway, that would break all the Liquidation + Ashur Tablets decks, and this is a personal point of view, but I don't consider them broken, it's just a matter of knowing how to oust them. You have to consider that it would also break several decks using Ashur Tablets and that aren't abusing of the combo, for example my last TWD:
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=16435

Ashur Tablets, no Liquidation and need to take the precise cards. If not I guess it won't work at all as expected. Played by myself and other players in different games/tournaments and I can guarantee it's solid, but not broken at all (and it's a MMPA-deck).

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29 Jul 2014 06:37 #64351 by alek
Replied by alek on topic Re: Balancing Ashur Tablets
I think that changing ashurs to get back cards on random is not a good idea. It would make it a weak card, in most cases unworthy of putting into deck. IMO we should think about the errata that would make it a little weaker, but still good. Don't forget that this card alone is great enabler for many decks that were not existent before ashurs. Such little tweaks could be:
- remove giving pool
- remove option of taking one of the cards to your hand
- make it possible to play only one ashur per turn
- make it possible to take back only minion cards
- reduce number of cards that can be put back into the deck f.e. to the 7 cards
- ban anthelios :)

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29 Jul 2014 06:50 #64353 by cordovader
And this? Following Alek's proposal.

Ashur Tablets

Master.
Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool and choose up to thirteen cards from your ash heap. Move one of those cards to your hand and shuffle the others into your library. Only one Ashur Tablets may be played each turn.


This way MMPA decks and non-MMPA decks would be in equality towards racing for Ashur Tablets and the "self-controlling" effect of Ashur Tablets would be more accurate.

I'm not a big fan of errata on Ashur Tablets, but I guess it would be the errata that would solve the problem the most. It won't disable actual game mechanics and it would enable use of Ashur Tablets on other decks making them able to compete with MMPA decks.

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29 Jul 2014 07:03 #64354 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Re: Balancing Ashur Tablets

You have to consider that it would also break several decks using Ashur Tablets and that aren't abusing of the combo, for example my last TWD:
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=16435

Ashur Tablets, no Liquidation and need to take the precise cards. If not I guess it won't work at all as expected. Played by myself and other players in different games/tournaments and I can guarantee it's solid, but not broken at all (and it's a MMPA-deck).


I'm not so sure.

If I read your deck list, you have :

30 masters :
22 will stay in play (or be removed from the game)
5 are "transient" : dream's, fame, pentex, tension, wider view (yes, I consider you play fame on your prey and you oust him/her)
3 will go in the ash heap when played

5 other permanents (2 event, well marked and 2 raven spy)

and then you have 5 reactions and 35 combat cards

and with ashur, what you wan back in your deck ?

I guess combat, reaction and transient masters

Of course you will not be able to tune your proportion so finely than before but you will still choose 1 card to put in your hand.

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