obf dom ghoul

Deck Name: obf dom war ghoul
Author:
Description:
villein + LB on OBF
retainers bleed
war ghoul
win

Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=6 avg=4.5; 12 cards)
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3x Ana Rita Montaña 5 aus dom obf VIC Tzimisce:3
2x Black Lotus 5 aus obf ser DOM Follower of Set:4
1x Catherine du Bois 5 for obf pre DOM Ventrue:3
1x Guedado 4 aus obf vic Tzimisce:4
1x Halim Bey 6 obf tha DOM SER Follower of Set:4
1x Jackson Asher 2 dom Ventrue:4
1x Keith Moody 3 DOM !Tremere:4
1x Louis Fortier 5 aus dom for obf pre Ventrue:4
1x Robin Withers 4 dom obf pre Ventrue:4

Library (60 cards)
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Master (17 cards)
1x Charisma
1x Coven, The
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Jake Washington (Hunter)
2x Lilith's Blessing
2x Obfuscate
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
6x Villein

Event (2 cards)
2x Unmasking, The

Action (4 cards)
4x Govern the Unaligned

Ally (9 cards)
1x Amam the Devourer (Bane Mummy)
1x Asanbonsam Ghoul
1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
1x Ossian
1x Qetu the Evil Doer (Bane Mummy)
1x Vagabond Mystic
3x War Ghoul

Retainer (6 cards)
1x Ghoul Escort
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Jackie Therman
1x Mr. Winthrop
1x Robert Carter
1x Tasha Morgan

Action Modifier (17 cards)
2x Cloak the Gathering
6x Conditioning
2x Forgotten Labyrinth
5x Lost in Crowds
2x Veil the Legions

Reaction (5 cards)
4x Deflection
1x Delaying Tactics

Created with Secret Library v0.9.4a. (Mar 2, 2013 16:15:18)


How do you intend to oust?

bleed with dom, bleed with allies

How do you intend to keep from being ousted?

unmasking deflection

What do you want your ready region to look like (ie, how many guys are you planning on getting out)?

3-4 vamps : ideally 1 tzim 1 FoS and 1-2 others

What do you want your average turn to look like?

equip retainer, summon war ghoul or mummy, rush and bleed

What's your metagame like? How do your opponents play?

combat, bleed, and bloat

What problems have you observed with the deck in play?

never played it.

Fun fact : there is as many card requiring Tzimisces than Tzimisce in the crypt. And you put no Wider View. Then again, it's kind of expected when you try to put together two discipline and a clan that have neither. And because it was not enough unplayable stuff, there is two (very bad) FoS-only ally with three setite in the crypt.

Also, the deck die horribly if someone have the good idea to rush you. And even war ghoul aren't all that scary given the complete lack of combat support and the fact they will take time to get into play.

Since Vissicitude already have quite a bit of stealth, and a small bit of bleed, and since Fiend Tongue exist, I don't really see the point of the deck ; ditching either Dominate or Obfuscate (or both), and you will have something that look like it can work. Or find another big ally to replace war ghoul, like Shadow Court Satyr (!gangrel having natively obfuscate), or the FoS ally that can have a discipline, or something like that.

Do you see yourself a) consistently drawing and using Lilith's Blessing 4 or more times each game and b) effectively playing Dominate cards with 3 blood? LB is mediocre at best, in this deck I would say it's completely inappropriate. Play additional Jakes or Perfectionists if you want to stick with Villeins.

Coven is anti-combat and you are ally combat. Cut it.

You can't defend Montreal with this deck and don't want to spend resources on stealing it back every turn.

I would try to find room for at least 2 Traps so you don't straight out lose to one Magnum or something.

Other than that, I think the concept is solid. Stealth bleed and chump blocking allies will destroy rush decks, War Ghouls take care of everything else. Wall decks with permanent maneuvers will give you huge trouble but you can't win them all. In the end, I suppose it will come down to whether you can consistently execute your game plan without the ally and bleed components interfering with each other.

Suoli wrote:

Stealth bleed and chump blocking allies will destroy rush decks, War Ghouls take care of everything else.

They are exactly two cheap ally : the Abonsam Ghoul, and the Mystic. Everything else cost at least two pool. Also, look at the size of vampires : he is in real risk of being destroyed before even attempting to recruit them. And recruiting ally for two pool when any decent rusher will atomize them in fine paste at the first combat don't look solid to me.

Also, there is no wake at all, so the defense will be pretty shaky.

If you change the war ghoul for other combaty ally, have a smaller and more coherent crypt, and put cheap ally, mayve the concept is solid ; but that involve changing half of the deck.

Ohlmann wrote:

They are exactly two cheap ally : the Abonsam Ghoul, and the Mystic. Everything else cost at least two pool.

When I said "chump block" I didn't mean to imply "block with a worthless ally". Blocking with War Ghouls works too.

(Nitpick: Mystic can't block vampires, Jake Washington can though.)

Also, look at the size of vampires : he is in real risk of being destroyed before even attempting to recruit them.

I absolutely disagree. The average crypt capacity is 4,5. If the rush deck, against all probabilities, ends up destroying this deck on turn 2 it doesn't matter what you're playing, it was going to destroy any sensible deck anyway.

And recruiting ally for two pool when any decent rusher will atomize them in fine paste at the first combat don't look solid to me.

.44 is tough for War Ghouls. Against anything else? I'm not saying it's impossible for a dedicated rush deck to kill a dedicated ally deck but all other things beings equal, my money is always on the allies. The rusher usually kills two or three, then the fourth and fifth ally overwhelm him. After the dust settles, the ally deck has lost a significant amount of resources but the rusher will have lost the game.

Also, there is no wake at all, so the defense will be pretty shaky.

2x Qui Vive is a good idea.

Suoli wrote:

When I said "chump block" I didn't mean to imply "block with a worthless ally". Blocking with War Ghouls works too.

(Nitpick: Mystic can't block vampires, Jake Washington can though.)

But for that, you need the war ghoul in the first place. There is only three war ghoul, and only 4 tzimisce in the crypt, without any way to get thoses card faster. There is a very real option that the deck won't recruit any war ghoul in a game. And thoses war ghoul won't go in play any time soon, because vampire are on the fat side and you need setup before war ghouling

Suoli wrote:

I absolutely disagree. The average crypt capacity is 4,5. If the rush deck, against all probabilities, ends up destroying this deck on turn 2 it doesn't matter what you're playing, it was going to destroy any sensible deck anyway.

It don't need to destroy the deck at turn 2. If we suppose a "fast" war ghoul, the first vampire enter play turn 2, recruit an ally or retainer turn 3, and the war ghoul turn 4. Plenty of time to put out of commission either the first ally or the tzimisce.

Compare to "classic" war ghoul deck, who can recruit a war ghoul on turn 2, or Maris Streck ally deck, who have more option to avoid combat and defend themselve before the ghoul are recruited.

Suoli wrote:

.44 is tough for War Ghouls. Against anything else? I'm not saying it's impossible for a dedicated rush deck to kill a dedicated ally deck but all other things beings equal, my money is always on the allies. The rusher usually kills two or three, then the fourth and fifth ally overwhelm him. After the dust settles, the ally deck has lost a significant amount of resources but the rusher will have lost the game.

The problem is before he start recruiting the War ghoul Once again, he only have 4 tzimisces, and they may very well not be the first thing recruited, so there is plenty time for other deck to prepare.

And all the non-war ghoul ally die to something as simple as aid + carrion. So the non-war ghoul ally can't protect effectively against rush (while being efficient at other thing ; I am not saying that Ossian is a bad ally for example)

Last problem : in addition to not have wake, the deck cannot intercept something at +2 stealth or more, which is unusual but can be seen. Stolen war ghoul are no fun, and yet again the deck ain't particulary speedy at recruiting ally.