My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
13 Mar 2018 07:19 - 13 Mar 2018 07:20 #85708
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
My analysis :
Since you're using a POT PRO strategy, remove the mid-cap vampires that don't have at least one of those disciplines at superior like Skryta.
It looks like you want to play all the master cards that you find cool. But playing just one Brainwash is not going to make it for instance. You should focus first on a pool module: Blood Dolls or Vessels, Villeins and the like. Dieudonné, Black Annis, Aeron... are 9 cap, so a +1 transfer would be great not to loose an extra turn (I'm thinking of Dreams of the Sphinx, Powerbase: Montreal etc.)
1x Arcanum Chapterhouse, Alexandria => crappy card, Hunting Grounds are not frequent, and even if you're prey plays a HG, the Chapterhouse can be burned as a
action.
1x Major Boon => not a bad card, but it's not enough: you should also play some Archon Investigation
1x Momentum's Edge => not in that deck, you're not speedy enough to have a VP quickly, so you'll probably discard it during the game
1x Not to Be => what event is bothersome for you? if there is no real threat, don't play Not to Be. And if there's one, play Uncoiling that works retroactively.
1x Ashur Tablets => doesn't work
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion => good choice since you don't play stealth but wakes and intercept to some extent
1x Powerbase: Montreal => you could play one more copy, alongside Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Shanty Town Hunting Ground => it would be more useful with Blood Doll or Vessel
3x Villein => it's either too much, or not enough. You can't rely on those Villein to get your pool back quickly
1x Wash => why not, but you should focus on a good master module first
1x Wider View => if you plan to play multiple copies of the vampires you want to draw in priority (which I suggest)
1x Brainwash => useless in this deck, and in this quantity
1x Direct Intervention => why not, but you should focus on a good master module first
1x Dreams of the Sphinx You need at least 1 more
Play at least some bleed equipment, or some very good Sabbat card such as Abbot.
How do you get your blood back? Amaranth? Taste?
First of all, you can't decently bring out all your crypt, your pool gain is not enough. So there's no point in playing 14 vampires. You should focus on some vampires that fit very well in your deck: you talk a lot of Baron Dieudonné, you should include at least 3 copies of him in the deck. Since you play Wider View, you'll be able to ditch extra copies.
Crypt (14 cards; Capacity min=3 max=9 avg=6.454545)
==================
2x Henry Taylor | 6 cel pre pro POT | Brujah antitribu:3
1x Icarus, The Manchurian | 7 ani for pro OBF POT | Nosferatu antitribu:4
2x Nails | 5 ani obf pro POT | Nosferatu antitribu:4
1x Ryder | 7 ani pot FOR PRO | Gangrel:4
1x Baron Dieudonne | 9 ANI OBF POT PRO | Nosferatu:4
1x Skryta Zyleta | 5 obf pot pro CEL | Gangrel antitribu:3
1x Soldat | 7 cel dom obf POT PRO | Gangrel antitribu:3
2x Bill Butler | 3 pot pro | Gangrel antitribu:4
1x Black Annis | 9 ani pro OBF POT | Nosferatu antitribu:4
1x Aeron | 9 aus pro ANI OBF POT | Nosferatu antitribu:3
1x Alessandro Garcia | 4 pot pre pro | Brujah antitribu:4
Since you're using a POT PRO strategy, remove the mid-cap vampires that don't have at least one of those disciplines at superior like Skryta.
Master (16 cards)
It looks like you want to play all the master cards that you find cool. But playing just one Brainwash is not going to make it for instance. You should focus first on a pool module: Blood Dolls or Vessels, Villeins and the like. Dieudonné, Black Annis, Aeron... are 9 cap, so a +1 transfer would be great not to loose an extra turn (I'm thinking of Dreams of the Sphinx, Powerbase: Montreal etc.)
1x Arcanum Chapterhouse, Alexandria => crappy card, Hunting Grounds are not frequent, and even if you're prey plays a HG, the Chapterhouse can be burned as a
action.1x Major Boon => not a bad card, but it's not enough: you should also play some Archon Investigation
1x Momentum's Edge => not in that deck, you're not speedy enough to have a VP quickly, so you'll probably discard it during the game
1x Not to Be => what event is bothersome for you? if there is no real threat, don't play Not to Be. And if there's one, play Uncoiling that works retroactively.
1x Ashur Tablets => doesn't work
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion => good choice since you don't play stealth but wakes and intercept to some extent
1x Powerbase: Montreal => you could play one more copy, alongside Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Shanty Town Hunting Ground => it would be more useful with Blood Doll or Vessel
3x Villein => it's either too much, or not enough. You can't rely on those Villein to get your pool back quickly
1x Wash => why not, but you should focus on a good master module first
1x Wider View => if you plan to play multiple copies of the vampires you want to draw in priority (which I suggest)
1x Brainwash => useless in this deck, and in this quantity
1x Direct Intervention => why not, but you should focus on a good master module first
1x Dreams of the Sphinx You need at least 1 more
I can't see how you regularily bleed for 3 with such an action module. What is likely to happen is: you draw 2 Bum's in the game, maybe 1 Computer Hacking, then your hand is full of combat cards, and noone is blocking you.Action (9 cards)
==================
3x Ambush
3x Bum's Rush
3x Computer Hacking
Play at least some bleed equipment, or some very good Sabbat card such as Abbot.
It costs too much blood. You could do the same with Torn. More Grapple is necessary. Claws of the Dead provide the maneuver, so Gleam of Red Eyes and Slam are not really necessary. The real question is: what do you want to do in combat? 1 aggravated to send the vampire to torpor? A lot of aggravated to burn the vampire outright?Combat (27 cards)
==================
4x Gleam of Red Eyes
3x Immortal Grapple
7x Pushing the Limit
4x Slam
3x Wolf Claws
3x Claws of the Dead
3x Disarm
How do you get your blood back? Amaranth? Taste?
That's a lot of wakes but little intercept. That's not a bad thing, but consider playing Under Siege, Marked Territory (based on your crypt)...Reaction (18 cards)
==================
6x Eyes of the Beast
3x Forced Awakening
4x On the Qui Vive
2x Sonar
3x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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13 Mar 2018 08:13 #85709
by Lönkka
So much this!
Now that you've tried your hand in building a deck of your own check what other people did with their decks. Preferably the ones that were at least somewhat successful, so I'd check the entries at TWDA.
www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm
Playing with your own deck first and then another game with one copies from TWDA might be a good choice too. You know, to experience the difference first hand...
Also notice that getting the cards is easy; just proxy them.
When you get your deck nailed down, then it might be the time to start scrounging the needed cards.
Replied by Lönkka on topic My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
Iusing someone else's deck to get a feel for what goes in them.
So much this!
Now that you've tried your hand in building a deck of your own check what other people did with their decks. Preferably the ones that were at least somewhat successful, so I'd check the entries at TWDA.
www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm
Playing with your own deck first and then another game with one copies from TWDA might be a good choice too. You know, to experience the difference first hand...
Also notice that getting the cards is easy; just proxy them.
When you get your deck nailed down, then it might be the time to start scrounging the needed cards.
Finnish 
Politics!
Politics!
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13 Mar 2018 22:22 - 13 Mar 2018 22:23 #85726
by LivesByProxy
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex 
, Obfuscate 
, or Potence for the current action.
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
@ Self Biased: Thanks for the feedback. Is there a way to PM you? I don't see one. I also completely misread the Ashur Tablets 
.
@ Brandon: Unfortunately, there are very few weenies with pot and pro, so it's really slim pickings, even if the grouping rule were ignored.
@ Ankha: So I need more pool manipulation cards, and I need to tune Masters, Actions, Combats, and my Crypt, got it. My plan with combat was to deal enough agg damage to burn smaller vamps and torp the bigger ones so that they either 1) rescue themselves from torpor and be extremely low on blood; 2) force my prey / predator to waste a ready minion's action to rescue their vamp from torpor. And my hope was that by being so threatening in combat I make unblocked bleeds since no one would risk combat with me. 
@ Lonkka: I've looked at the TWD archive, and what struck me was how many 1x Master cards were included in each deck. I totally underestimated the pool manipulation cards though.
@ BloodArtist: I've actually read probably everything on that site (or 80% of it). The deck archetypes are really neat to read about, but I was disappointed that the only Rush Combat decks were Tupdog, Cel Gun, and Weenie Animals. That's why I was inspired to make a Pot/Pro deck - I thought it would be somewhat unique.
.@ Brandon: Unfortunately, there are very few weenies with pot and pro, so it's really slim pickings, even if the grouping rule were ignored.
@ Ankha: So I need more pool manipulation cards, and I need to tune Masters, Actions, Combats, and my Crypt, got it.
My plan with combat was to deal enough agg damage to burn smaller vamps and torp the bigger ones so that they either 1) rescue themselves from torpor and be extremely low on blood; 2) force my prey / predator to waste a ready minion's action to rescue their vamp from torpor. And my hope was that by being so threatening in combat I make unblocked bleeds since no one would risk combat with me. @ Lonkka: I've looked at the TWD archive, and what struck me was how many 1x Master cards were included in each deck. I totally underestimated the pool manipulation cards though.
@ BloodArtist: I've actually read probably everything on that site (or 80% of it). The deck archetypes are really neat to read about, but I was disappointed that the only Rush Combat decks were Tupdog, Cel Gun, and Weenie Animals. That's why I was inspired to make a Pot/Pro deck - I thought it would be somewhat unique.
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.
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13 Mar 2018 22:40 - 13 Mar 2018 22:52 #85727
by Bloodartist
For example, you could run blood dolls/vessels both to gain blood via your vampires (hunting ground, taste of vitae to refill them with blood) or give them blood when combat puts them in low blood.
Another way to both speed up getting vampires to play and gain pool in later game is having cards that move blood to vampires in your uncontrolled region (powerbase: montreal, clan-specific cards like Nosferatu kingdom ) You can tap nos kingdom to put blood to a !nos in your uncontrolled region, then use transfers to move this blood to your pool. If you make bringing vampires to play "cheaper" in some way, its basically same thing as gaining pool.
Also your deck has no taste of vitaes. Your vampires will probably struggle to live through a few rounds of combat with any other deck with combat cards in it, as grapple combat means you will be at close range and thus take hits from your opponents.
The site lists the most common archetypes - there are numerous ways to build combat decks.
You are free to try your thing, although in my opinion protean combat somewhat overlaps potence combat. Decks usually employ one or the other. Either you hit for a lot or you hit aggro damage. At the very least I recommend you replace some pushing the limits with taste of vitaes. Also if you want rush combat deck, you probably have too few rushes..
Most combat decks supplement ousting with cards that damage your prey via combat, such as dragonbound , tension in the ranks , etc. I've found that fame is one of the best options for rush combat.
ps. I'm not a fan of dragonbound myself. It has a tendency to oust its owner and -handsize is a HUGE issue for combat decks.
I also recommend you replace computer hackings with some kind of permanent +bleed. Such as laptop computer or camera phone. Three bleed action cards aren't gonna get anywhere I'm afraid.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
Pool gain is very important for basically any deck. There are various of ways to do it, some cards work better together than others.@ Lonkka: I've looked at the TWD archive, and what struck me was how many 1x Master cards were included in each deck. I totally underestimated the pool manipulation cards though.
For example, you could run blood dolls/vessels both to gain blood via your vampires (hunting ground, taste of vitae to refill them with blood) or give them blood when combat puts them in low blood.
Another way to both speed up getting vampires to play and gain pool in later game is having cards that move blood to vampires in your uncontrolled region (powerbase: montreal, clan-specific cards like Nosferatu kingdom ) You can tap nos kingdom to put blood to a !nos in your uncontrolled region, then use transfers to move this blood to your pool. If you make bringing vampires to play "cheaper" in some way, its basically same thing as gaining pool.
Also your deck has no taste of vitaes. Your vampires will probably struggle to live through a few rounds of combat with any other deck with combat cards in it, as grapple combat means you will be at close range and thus take hits from your opponents.
@ BloodArtist: I've actually read probably everything on that site (or 80% of it). The deck archetypes are really neat to read about, but I was disappointed that the only Rush Combat decks were Tupdog, Cel Gun, and Weenie Animals. That's why I was inspired to make a Pot/Pro deck - I thought it would be somewhat unique.
The site lists the most common archetypes - there are numerous ways to build combat decks
.You are free to try your thing, although in my opinion protean combat somewhat overlaps potence combat. Decks usually employ one or the other. Either you hit for a lot or you hit aggro damage. At the very least I recommend you replace some pushing the limits with taste of vitaes. Also if you want rush combat deck, you probably have too few rushes..
Most combat decks supplement ousting with cards that damage your prey via combat, such as dragonbound , tension in the ranks , etc. I've found that fame is one of the best options for rush combat.
ps. I'm not a fan of dragonbound myself. It has a tendency to oust its owner and -handsize is a HUGE issue for combat decks.
I also recommend you replace computer hackings with some kind of permanent +bleed. Such as laptop computer or camera phone. Three bleed action cards aren't gonna get anywhere I'm afraid.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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13 Mar 2018 22:51 #85728
by LivesByProxy
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic My 1st Deck (Having Never Played VTES)
I'm looking into what bleed bonuses I get as we speak.
I'm wondering what Self Biased meant when he said: "G3-4 Gangrel anti-tribu are also not exactly hot commodities." Anyone care to explain?
I'm wondering what Self Biased meant when he said: "G3-4 Gangrel anti-tribu are also not exactly hot commodities." Anyone care to explain?
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.
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