TWD & Report - Camarilla Conclave 2011, Palma de Mallorca (Spain), 14. Aug. 2011

ICL wrote:

Been thinking about this problem for a while. I don't see combat ends wrecking anything, as long as the deck survives, it will run someone out of combat ends with Deep Song rush.

Aye and Path of Scorched Heart give Deep Song immunity to some decks. Then there's Abombwe for the, uhh, Ugadja/Umdava/Nkule stealth vote deck?

Average capacity of the minions in that deck is almost 6 with no acceleration to bring them out faster, so its hardly going to have any notable minion advantage. Also with only 6 ashur tablets in 90 cards, its not actually going to be bloating terribly much with them, in average game it will only get them to go off once at most. It also has no stealth to assure it hits the right target, no intercept so pretty much its only defense is to rush backwards and hope its predator doesn't have combat defense. And with minions of that size, if its rushing backwards then its prey has no pressure whatsoever.

So I will definetily agree with Boris that you guys are over reacting.

Suoli wrote:

ICL wrote:

Been thinking about this problem for a while. I don't see combat ends wrecking anything, as long as the deck survives, it will run someone out of combat ends with Deep Song rush.

Aye and Path of Scorched Heart give Deep Song immunity to some decks. Then there's Abombwe for the, uhh, Ugadja/Umdava/Nkule stealth vote deck?

You forgot Uchenna and Amavi who are generally in that deck too.

Klaital wrote:

Average capacity of the minions in that deck is almost 6 with no acceleration to bring them out faster, so its hardly going to have any notable minion advantage. Also with only 6 ashur tablets in 90 cards, its not actually going to be bloating terribly much with them, in average game it will only get them to go off once at most. It also has no stealth to assure it hits the right target, no intercept so pretty much its only defense is to rush backwards and hope its predator doesn't have combat defense. And with minions of that size, if its rushing backwards then its prey has no pressure whatsoever.

My experience with playing against well piloted Nana decks disagrees with yours. From what I've seen, it bloats enough with Villeins to ignore it's predator and has enough rushes per turn to not care about chump blocks or Majesties.

So I will definetily agree with Boris that you guys are over reacting.

Nobody's crying for banhammer or anything. I'm calling it a solid new tier 1 archetype and the TWDA seems to corroborate that.

Suoli wrote:

My experience with playing against well piloted Nana decks disagrees with yours.

Is the deck presented here the one you played against? I doubt so since you talk about minion advantage and this deck has none. Maybe you saw something with smaller vampires and disciplines cards?

From what I've seen, it bloats enough with Villeins to ignore it's predator

Sudden, Wash, Bleeding the Vine. With all the Villeins flying around, it is high time to pack enough of them when planning for a quick first VP.

Non-existant user wrote:

Is the deck presented here the one you played against? I doubt so since you talk about minion advantage and this deck has none. Maybe you saw something with smaller vampires and disciplines cards?

I did but the minion advantage is achieved more by Villeins than anything else.

Sudden, Wash, Bleeding the Vine. With all the Villeins flying around, it is high time to pack enough of them when planning for a quick first VP.

Suddens etc. are a bad plan against multiple MPA decks. Even something extreme like ~10% of deck space spent on canceling one master per turn has too little effect on ~25% of deck space dedicated to playing multiple masters per turn.