Card Idea: Send a message

This additional effect makes the card playable even though the opposing minion did not burn or was not sent to torpor, making the card less situational.

Is it too strong now? Change as per below.

Name: Send a message
Type: Combat/Action modifier
Text:
Combat: Play when opposing minion is burned or going to torpor. Not usuable by a minion going to torpor. The opposing minions controller can´t play master cards during his or her next master phase.
Action modifier: May only be played after combat involving this minion has ended and no new combat is queued. Only one Send a message may be played each action. This minion may burn one blood or life to force the opposing minion to burn one blood/life.

Khaan wrote:

This additional effect makes the card playable even though the opposing minion did not burn or was not sent to torpor, making the card less situational.

Is it too strong now? Change as per below.

Name: Send a message
Type: Combat/Action modifier
Text:
Combat: Play when opposing minion is burned or going to torpor. Not usuable by a minion going to torpor. The opposing minions controller can´t play master cards during his or her next master phase.
Action modifier: May only be played after combat involving this minion has ended and no new combat is queued. Only one Send a message may be played each action. This minion may burn one blood or life to force the opposing minion to burn one blood/life.

I don't understand your insistence that this card idea is too limiting. First of all, you have to remember that there will be 59 to 89 other cards in this deck. It's not necessary to have a card that is usable in every deck.

Second of all, Deckbuilding is part of the game. Sure the card is situational. But how many Decapitates do you put in a deck? You might throw two or three in a potence combat deck. Chances are you won't be able to play 8 of them in a game. Not every new card should be good or versatile enough to put 10 copies in every deck.

Also, we are heading into uncharted waters here as far as the effects of this card idea. You can claim it's too powerful or not powerful enough, but you don't have any data to back that up. But that's the kind of card that should be playtested.

I suspect that it would be a good card. Making it so your prey can't play a master card further jams their hand and slows them down. If it did turn out to be to powerful, you might give the methuselah denied a master phase action an additional discard phase.

Good comments direwolf.

I am perfectly happy with just the combat effect. In fact my first suggestion when I thought up the card was that playing it would even prevent the opposining minion from going into torpor, sort of "we'll leave you alive so you can go tell your scumbag master".

The second effect was merely added after critique that the card might be useless otherwise.

I agree that not every card should be strong by itself, and also that it is the combinations of cards that make them playable.


Thus far the responses on the card range from overpowered to wallpaperish. Hard to tell. Playtests will tell.

I don't understand your insistence that this card idea is too limiting. First of all, you have to remember that there will be 59 to 89 other cards in this deck. It's not necessary to have a card that is usable in every deck.

Second of all, Deckbuilding is part of the game. Sure the card is situational. But how many Decapitates do you put in a deck? You might throw two or three in a potence combat deck. Chances are you won't be able to play 8 of them in a game.

I'm not sure if your analogy is really correct here. See, when playing Decapitate your intention is to rush vampires, torp them and then destroy them. You being able to use those cards effectively is a direct function of your deck functioning well. This is similar to putting Disarm or Taste of Vitae in your deck. If you play it, it does something useful for you. With Sending a Message, it being a useful card has more to do with your opponents hand, deck design and cardflow than anything else. In one game it might completely give you an oust by delaying that Secure Haven a turn, while the next game it may end up doing nothing. Both these events are totally out of your hands, making the opportunity cost for the card extremely high.

Not every new card should be good or versatile enough to put 10 copies in every deck.

No, but every card *should* be at least competing for cardslots with other cards that go in the same slots. I'll also refer to the discussion about a hypothetical new dementation action card, that has to compete with Kindred Spirits to be even worth considering.

A combat card, especially one with a blood cost, has to compete with a multitude of other combat cards in an archtype that is already known for being card intensive. The design choice here is not "how MANY Sending a Message do I include" but "Am I going to use them over Taste/Grapple/Psyche/Disarm/Target Vitals".

The card as proposed would not make the cut in my decks simply because the effect is too random to reliably help me getting more VPs. The secondary effect proposed is pretty overcosted IMO (compare to Loving Agony and Catatonic Fear, for example) and rather pointless for a card aiming to help rush decks.

Izaak wrote:

I don't understand your insistence that this card idea is too limiting. First of all, you have to remember that there will be 59 to 89 other cards in this deck. It's not necessary to have a card that is usable in every deck.

Second of all, Deckbuilding is part of the game. Sure the card is situational. But how many Decapitates do you put in a deck? You might throw two or three in a potence combat deck. Chances are you won't be able to play 8 of them in a game.

I'm not sure if your analogy is really correct here. See, when playing Decapitate your intention is to rush vampires, torp them and then destroy them. You being able to use those cards effectively is a direct function of your deck functioning well. This is similar to putting Disarm or Taste of Vitae in your deck. If you play it, it does something useful for you. With Sending a Message, it being a useful card has more to do with your opponents hand, deck design and cardflow than anything else. In one game it might completely give you an oust by delaying that Secure Haven a turn, while the next game it may end up doing nothing. Both these events are totally out of your hands, making the opportunity cost for the card extremely high.

Not every new card should be good or versatile enough to put 10 copies in every deck.

No, but every card *should* be at least competing for cardslots with other cards that go in the same slots. I'll also refer to the discussion about a hypothetical new dementation action card, that has to compete with Kindred Spirits to be even worth considering.

A combat card, especially one with a blood cost, has to compete with a multitude of other combat cards in an archtype that is already known for being card intensive. The design choice here is not "how MANY Sending a Message do I include" but "Am I going to use them over Taste/Grapple/Psyche/Disarm/Target Vitals".

The card as proposed would not make the cut in my decks simply because the effect is too random to reliably help me getting more VPs. The secondary effect proposed is pretty overcosted IMO (compare to Loving Agony and Catatonic Fear, for example) and rather pointless for a card aiming to help rush decks.

I totally get what you are saying. You wouldn't play the card, but the idea is not without merit.

First of all, Comparing this to decapitate is a fair analogy, because my concern was more on the playability of the card. Both have similar requirements, though "Send a Message" does not require a discipline making it playable by a bigger variety of clans.

You argue that "Send a Message" isn't always useful. You're right, your target might not have a master card, or the master card might not be as consequential. It's a little of a gamble, but I've found that preventing your prey from playing cards is a strong move.

Second of all, as for competing for deck space: Not everyone is going to have all of those cards you mentioned. Also, someone may find other cards that work well with this card. Preventing your prey from playing master cards might be part of your larger strategy, rather than the current dunk and burn deck archetype.

The goal is to expand the game. That means making cards that are playable, competitive, and not reproducing existing cards.

First of all, Comparing this to decapitate is a fair analogy, because my concern was more on the playability of the card. Both have similar requirements, though "Send a Message" does not require a discipline making it playable by a bigger variety of clans.

Well, that's the thing. The requirements are similar, except that Decapitate, when played, always does exactly what you expect it will do when you put it in your deck. Sending a Message, while disciplineless, doesn't do anything significant at least half the time.

That means making cards that are playable, competitive

Exactly.

That's why I think it's too weak.