Card Idea: Ill-gotten Gains

Until you actually happen to torporize someone, combat is useless.

Ye see the problem is exactly this mindset.

All of that don't happen with combat usually to be honest. It does happen, and is effective, with for example Shattering Crescendo or Horseshoe. (except for c))

Shattering Crescendo and Horseshoes work because people don't stack their entire deck with them, but instead use them as a support for their main strategy and/or as tactical nukes to take out an ally or a key voter.

That's why the intend is to add a card that give you a short-term benefit to combat, to not make mandatory to dunk every minion or none at all.

Dozens of these cards already exist. They just don't happen to be red.

Again, stop trying to design cards that give people that want to play decks with 50+ red cards a bonus for doing so.

Izaak take a look at the card I suggested in another thread, that is specifically intended to give benefits for combat when you don't smash the opposing minion.

Izaak wrote:

Ye see the problem is exactly this mindset.

It's not a mindset but the reality, at least for now.

Have Lutz with 4 blood instead of 8 ? What exactly does that hamper you ? He will able to play only 4 telepathic misdirection ?

And, outside the fact that shattering crecendo deck do play a LOT of shattering crescendo, you look at the consequence, not the cause.

The cause is that winning a combat with anything but torpor is useless, and also that you need a combo that basically is half your hand size at best (i.e. bum rush + a combat chain, which will do at least 3 card if you're not on animalism). The consequence is to make real sure that the deck alway have an hand full of red card, because it absolutely need it.

(note that you are right on one point : forcing the player to torporize or kill a minion is way too much of a requirement, since if he can do this reliably then we have a problem)

Ohlmann wrote:

The cause is that winning a combat with anything but torpor is useless, and also that you need a combo that basically is half your hand size at best (i.e. bum rush + a combat chain, which will do at least 3 card if you're not on animalism). The consequence is to make real sure that the deck alway have an hand full of red card, because it absolutely need it.

(note that you are right on one point : forcing the player to torporize or kill a minion is way too much of a requirement, since if he can do this reliably then we have a problem)

This.

And despite being an ocasional transgressor of the precepts that Izaak defends while designing cards I can very much agree with him on this.


Drain

note that you are right on one point : forcing the player to torporize or kill a minion is way too much of a requirement, since if he can do this reliably then we have a problem

Funny as it is, I agree with this for a different reason.

Nuking minions should NOT be made attractive or more rewarding than it already is. Ever. Because every time you do this, VTES becomes more about combat and how to kill/survive and less about intrigue, politics and clever strategies.

What *should* be rewarded more is weakening minions. Street Cred was a step in the right direction, except that it should have been free and not have the younger clause, but it's at least something.

Painful memories
1 blood, combat card
Only usable in combat with a minion controlled by your predator. Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor.

Put this card on the opposing minion with X counters on it where X is the amount of blood lost by the opposing vampire (round up). When the vampire with this card is bleeding you, you may burn this card to reduce the bleed by X.

So rather than instead "Declare GtU for three, oh you blocked... here become a crater"... I'm proposing that you rush, make ONE crater, then get your GtU-style bleed. Look at the sequencing point. Rather than making crater after crater after crater, you don't need to make anywhere near as many to increase the pressure on your prey to oust them.

I've been playing for a while, and I realise this game isn't a table-top war game with cards. What I'm trying to actually do is give additional meaningful options for a combat-oriented deck. This is to potentially take things away from the "take a 5 bleed, or lose an 8 cap" but "lose a 4 cap, and i might be following this up with a 3 bleed or i might just bring out another minion to bleed or reduce the pressure on me before i go forwards".

It's intended to reduce the need to play Vampire: The Armageddon and have 2 people sitting around twiddling their fingers. I have had enough jerk predators who obliterate all my minions and then wonder why I turn myself into a pool sack in front of them. If you can't see how this would allow an alternative to either a) being stuck in a crappy game where you are being bled to death 1 pool at a time by two minions or b) feeling that every time you don't pack Dominate flick you need to obliterate every minion of your predator, then maybe you don't understand what is being said to you.