Changing the card text template to make entry easier

the1andonlime wrote:

Really, how hard can it be to put "(title, x votes)" next to every bishop, primogen, magaji or cardinal and "(unique title, x votes) next to every prince, archbishop, justicar, inner circle or regent? Of course all these will only appear on new cards or reprints.

I second this. Considering the absurd amount of text that already on certain vampires, for reasons that is mainly just bad design, this should be possible. Helping newbie is never wrong.

the1andonlime wrote:

See, I believe that, ideally, potential players can pick up vtes without going "WTF?! TL;DR, not going to play something so complicated". I am specifically talking about those who have no access to an existing playgroup to show them the ropes.

I don't think than adding "(x votes)" after each title will contribute to change a "WTF!" in "oh this game seems so easy now!"

the1andonlime wrote:

Would you agree that, after quickly reading through the rules, a player should be able to jump into the game without having to constantly reference rules or reminder cards?

Of course not
But why put the rule reminders on each card rather than on a reminder card?
Addind reminder text on cards can lead to long text where the important information is diluted in lots of useless text.[/quote]

Ankha wrote:

the1andonlime wrote:

See, I believe that, ideally, potential players can pick up vtes without going "WTF?! TL;DR, not going to play something so complicated". I am specifically talking about those who have no access to an existing playgroup to show them the ropes.

I don't think than adding "(x votes)" after each title will contribute to change a "WTF!" in "oh this game seems so easy now!"

Many a little makes a mickle, or? But of course you have to pick the right things to clearify.

the1andonlime wrote:

Ankha wrote:

I don't think than adding "(x votes)" after each title will contribute to change a "WTF!" in "oh this game seems so easy now!"

I think you are missing my point here. I am not saying that adding "(x votes)" after each title will do that. What I am saying is, ideally, players should be able to look at the cards and go "oh, that's not too hard to understand", and that adding "(x votes)" is a good step towards that goal.

I think quite the opposite. I prefer a single keyword, rather that a keyword followed by extra text. It's quicker to read, straight to the point with no superfluous information.

the1andonlime wrote:

Ankha wrote:

Of course not

I don't quite understand: are you saying that you don't agree to the entire statement, or that you agree that players should not need to keep making external references?

I misread what you wrote. But I don't think a player can jump directly into the game without refering to the rules or some help during the game; the game isn't simple to a point that reading once the rules is enough. And it's not the only game. Last game I tried (Netrunner) requires a few games before I could grasp all the basics.

the1andonlime wrote:

Ankha wrote:

But why put the rule reminders on each card rather than on a reminder card?
Addind reminder text on cards can lead to long text where the important information is diluted in lots of useless text.

Yes. I agree fully with you on the evils of huge walls of text.
I am proposing only exactly what I have stated and not for reminder text for all keywords. That is another discussion for another thread, with the very good chance of requiring major layout changes to achieve.

Like Ashur said, we have to

pick the right things to clearify

, and I think this is one of the things that is useful, easily implemented and will not take up too much extra space by itself.

There's no clarification involved there, because the "prince" keyword is perfectly defined in the textbook. It's more "help for the beginner" or "reminder" text.
Question is: where do we start adding explanation text to cards, and where do we stop? I don't think that titles should be explained.
And you could go further in the details: why not add "(title worth 2 votes)" so that players know that Prince is a title? Or "(city title worth 2 votes)" so players know it has a special interaction with titles from the same city? We could even add "(unique city title worth 2 votes)" to make clear there can be only 1 Prince of a city... Where do we stop? I'm a bit exagerating there, but once again, I prefer a clear simple text whose full definition is in the rules.

the1andonlime wrote:

Is there any card you have in mind that adding "(x votes)" will cause the card text to explode?

Without making text explode, any add of "(x votes)" will lengthen the text and reduce the text font size (even sometimes for vanilla prince such as Tara).