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Changing the card text template to make entry easier
18 Jan 2013 20:28 #44218
by ICL
Whereas I get asked how many votes an Archbishop or Cardinal is worth shockingly often by people who have played for years.
While that shouldn't be the case, the game should be vastly clearer than it has been historically.
Replied by ICL on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
Of all the things that perhaps should be changed or clarified, I wouldn't rank titles or ammount of votes each title provides very highly in need of a change. In my experience, even begginer playes don't have that much of a problem remembering which title is worth how many votes or calculating how many votes are on the table...
Whereas I get asked how many votes an Archbishop or Cardinal is worth shockingly often by people who have played for years.
While that shouldn't be the case, the game should be vastly clearer than it has been historically.
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19 Jan 2013 05:07 #44226
by the1andonlime
However, this is one of the things that should be changed for the better and is not hard to implement the change. If we can't even start on one thing, what's the point of talking about everything else?
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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Replied by the1andonlime on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
Of course there are other things to change.Of all the things that perhaps should be changed or clarified, I wouldn't rank titles or ammount of votes each title provides very highly in need of a change. In my experience, even begginer playes don't have that much of a problem remembering which title is worth how many votes or calculating how many votes are on the table...
However, this is one of the things that should be changed for the better and is not hard to implement the change. If we can't even start on one thing, what's the point of talking about everything else?
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
興っ
www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
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19 Jan 2013 05:10 #44227
by the1andonlime
It's not like there are more than ten posts in total
Suaku
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www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
Replied by the1andonlime on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
At the risk of sounding rude and abrasive, at least be bothered to read one page of posts before posting something that has already been covered.Well... do you remember that card that came inside every deck with the disciplines, clans, etc?
Create a mew one and just add the titles...
It's not like there are more than ten posts in total
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www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
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23 Jan 2013 08:10 #44317
by the1andonlime
Suaku
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Replied by the1andonlime on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
Anyone from the card design or marketing team care to weigh in on this?
I personally think there are a lot more changes we can do, but something this simple and effective should at least be considered. No?
If we can make card comprehension more intuitive, we will increase the chances of groups that start up themselves before joining the greater community. Ultimately, is not our plan to grow the player base? I propose that making it easier for people to pick up the game works very well towards that goal and making card comprehension more intuitive most certainly makes picking up the game easier.
I personally think there are a lot more changes we can do, but something this simple and effective should at least be considered. No?
If we can make card comprehension more intuitive, we will increase the chances of groups that start up themselves before joining the greater community. Ultimately, is not our plan to grow the player base? I propose that making it easier for people to pick up the game works very well towards that goal and making card comprehension more intuitive most certainly makes picking up the game easier.
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
興っ
www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
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23 Jan 2013 09:26 - 23 Jan 2013 09:30 #44320
by Ankha
Adding the number of votes after the title has nothing to do with intuitiveness because either the player have read the section about referendum and knows what title and votes are about, or he hasn't and the concept of # votes won't help him.
Adding the number of votes is more a help for beginners which is welcome on initiation sets (that's why I added them on my demo cards -- and you can see that there's a lot of text as soon as you begin to add rules reminders) but becomes quickly redundant and space-wasting when you've played a few games.
I don't think you can make standard VTES cards "intuitive". If you haven't read the rules, you won't get far.
If you have a look on Magic cards, only core sets have reminders about keywords such as Flying and so on. The volume of cards printed and expansions, as well as the quantity of vanilla cards (1/1 flying creature with no text) make it easy to add reminder text. Classical sets don't have reminder (except for new keywords, which doesn't happen frequently in VTES).
To cut a long story short, I think that "Prince of Miami" is perfectly clear and doesn't need any additional reminder text. It's more useful either to design a beginner's set with special cards, and/or a set of reminders cards (the existing ones have to many informations on them): one with the titles and what they're worth and how a political action works, one for combat, one with the turn layout, etc.
In fact, playing on the playmat should be enough. The number of votes a Prince has is written on it.
If people have ideas to make the game more "intuitive", please share!
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
I suppose you have the "title (x votes)" in mind.Anyone from the card design or marketing team care to weigh in on this?
I personally think there are a lot more changes we can do, but something this simple and effective should at least be considered. No?
If we can make card comprehension more intuitive, we will increase the chances of groups that start up themselves before joining the greater community. Ultimately, is not our plan to grow the player base? I propose that making it easier for people to pick up the game works very well towards that goal and making card comprehension more intuitive most certainly makes picking up the game easier.
Adding the number of votes after the title has nothing to do with intuitiveness because either the player have read the section about referendum and knows what title and votes are about, or he hasn't and the concept of # votes won't help him.
Adding the number of votes is more a help for beginners which is welcome on initiation sets (that's why I added them on my demo cards -- and you can see that there's a lot of text as soon as you begin to add rules reminders) but becomes quickly redundant and space-wasting when you've played a few games.
I don't think you can make standard VTES cards "intuitive". If you haven't read the rules, you won't get far.
If you have a look on Magic cards, only core sets have reminders about keywords such as Flying and so on. The volume of cards printed and expansions, as well as the quantity of vanilla cards (1/1 flying creature with no text) make it easy to add reminder text. Classical sets don't have reminder (except for new keywords, which doesn't happen frequently in VTES).
To cut a long story short, I think that "Prince of Miami" is perfectly clear and doesn't need any additional reminder text. It's more useful either to design a beginner's set with special cards, and/or a set of reminders cards (the existing ones have to many informations on them): one with the titles and what they're worth and how a political action works, one for combat, one with the turn layout, etc.
In fact, playing on the playmat should be enough. The number of votes a Prince has is written on it.
If people have ideas to make the game more "intuitive", please share!
Last edit: 23 Jan 2013 09:30 by Ankha.
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24 Jan 2013 02:28 #44340
by the1andonlime
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
Replied by the1andonlime on topic Re: Changing the card text template to make entry easier
See, I believe that, ideally, potential players can pick up vtes without going "WTF?! TL;DR, not going to play something so complicated". I am specifically talking about those who have no access to an existing playgroup to show them the ropes.
I agree that too much reminder text for keywords do make the text overly long, but there are too many players (potential and existing) who keep asking how many votes certain titles have.
Would you agree that, after quickly reading through the rules, a player should be able to jump into the game without having to constantly reference rules or reminder cards?
That said, I concur that if we do get a chance to do beginner sets (which can be used with existing cards) on a more or less regular basis, that would be the best place to have cards with reminder text.
However, without such a set anytime in the horizon, I still think my proposal will help the game.
I agree that too much reminder text for keywords do make the text overly long, but there are too many players (potential and existing) who keep asking how many votes certain titles have.
Would you agree that, after quickly reading through the rules, a player should be able to jump into the game without having to constantly reference rules or reminder cards?
That said, I concur that if we do get a chance to do beginner sets (which can be used with existing cards) on a more or less regular basis, that would be the best place to have cards with reminder text.
However, without such a set anytime in the horizon, I still think my proposal will help the game.
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
興っ
www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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